Finding Common Ground On EPDs

[greenwillowherefords]

Laying aside all disagreements about how accurate and reliable EPDs really are, I want to know if most agree with this statement: Weaning and yearling weights and their corresponding EPDs are increased by selection of the high-indexing individuals among contemporary groups. (The same philosophy can apply to any trait and its EPD) If one is pushing for increased WW and YW, they may then mate two high-indexing, high EPD animals, and so the pattern goes on. We had to arrive at the current breed averages from the original "0" by some method, and that seems to be the only common sense way to do it. So given a contemporary group of animals, with all EPDs being fairly close, does it not make sense to select the individual with the best personal data? Somehow, a cow and a bull who nick well are able to produce a calf who exceeds both their EPDs, and that calf is likely to be the outstanding individual of his group, IMHO.

 

[fellersbarnoneranch]

I agree that stregnth bred to stregnth tends to yield increased stregnth. In personal practice, I want to be sure to increase the support systems for that stregnth (ie. milk and forage efficiency) I think that balance is actually more important to me as I am producing seedstock. It is troubling to see seedstock producers chasing the pendulum from one extreme to another in any given amount of time.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

When all EPD's of a contempory group are equal (rare!) than yes the individual with higher growth should ADD to the statistics for that pedigree for increased numbers in the future. But, most of the time weaning weights are more influenced by milk than WW epd's.
But EPD numbers increase as offspring are reported higher than their contempories.
By finding the "outlyers" (sp?) is how breeds make changes. Bigger or smaller. Average animals bulls to average cows rarely make very much change.
So, all in all, what you are saying is right.

 

[Frankie]

Laying aside all disagreements about how accurate and reliable EPDs really are, I want to know if most agree with this statement: Weaning and yearling weights and their corresponding EPDs are increased by selection of the high-indexing individuals among contemporary groups. (The same philosophy can apply to any trait and its EPD) If one is pushing for increased WW and YW, they may then mate two high-indexing, high EPD animals, and so the pattern goes on. We had to arrive at the current breed averages from the original "0" by some method, and that seems to be the only common sense way to do it. So given a contemporary group of animals, with all EPDs being fairly close, does it not make sense to select the individual with the best personal data? Somehow, a cow and a bull who nick well are able to produce a calf who exceeds both their EPDs, and that calf is likely to be the outstanding individual of his group, IMHO.

If you are selecting from a group of contemporary animals, you have to base your selecton on something. If you want to use their own performance, that's fine. Someone else might want to look at the animal's dam and sire. Or might want the "prettiest" one. Or the tallest one. Or the shortest one. After they're sound and fertile, it becomes a personal choice because different people are looking for different things, including EPDs.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

When all EPD's of a contempory group are equal (rare!) than yes the individual with higher growth should ADD to the statistics for that pedigree for increased numbers in the future. But, most of the time weaning weights are more influenced by milk than WW epd's.
But EPD numbers increase as offspring are reported higher than their contempories.
By finding the "outlyers" (sp?) is how breeds make changes. Bigger or smaller. Average animals bulls to average cows rarely make very much change.
So, all in all, what you are saying is right.

It is not rare for a line-bred herd to produce groups that have EPDs that are very close. When you have calves sired by a bull with a similar family tree to the herd of half-sisters and mother-daughters that he is servicing, you will have a group of calves that are very close on EPDs. More than likely in this scenario the cows will be very similar in milking ability as well.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

It is not rare for a line-bred herd to produce groups that have EPDs that are very close. When you have calves sired by a bull with a similar family tree to the herd of half-sisters and mother-daughters that he is servicing, you will have a group of calves that are very close on EPDs. More than likely in this scenario the cows will be very similar in milking ability as well.

GWH - You are so right. I lose sight of herds that use natural service bulls. Sorry, I was being tunnel visioned thinking about my own herd & others that I deal with. We use so many different bulls, and few cows are sired by the same bull in my herd. My EPD's are getting fairly uniform because we have goals in different categories, but not uniform like using the same bull. I stand corrected.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

It is not rare for a line-bred herd to produce groups that have EPDs that are very close. When you have calves sired by a bull with a similar family tree to the herd of half-sisters and mother-daughters that he is servicing, you will have a group of calves that are very close on EPDs. More than likely in this scenario the cows will be very similar in milking ability as well.

GWH - You are so right. I lose sight of herds that use natural service bulls. Sorry, I was being tunnel visioned thinking about my own herd & others that I deal with. We use so many different bulls, and few cows are sired by the same bull in my herd. My EPD's are getting fairly uniform because we have goals in different categories, but not uniform like using the same bull. I stand corrected.

BTW, didn't mean to come across as grouchy.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

BTW, didn't mean to come across as grouchy

Didn't take it that way. Just stating facts. I'm afraid I come across as grouchy also, but I'm not good at "frilling" up a statement. Just facts.