Fescue

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On the pastures I've been brush hogging, or even just clipping seed heads, I get windrows of residue that I'm afraid are smothering grass.

The only reason I'm clipping seedheads is I have a lot of tall fescue, and fall calving cows, and am worried about the fungus issues in their late pregnancy.

And mostly i have zero experience... :oops:
 
MrSmith said:
On the pastures I've been brush hogging, or even just clipping seed heads, I get windrows of residue that I'm afraid are smothering grass.

The only reason I'm clipping seedheads is I have a lot of tall fescue, and fall calving cows, and am worried about the fungus issues in their late pregnancy.

And mostly i have zero experience... :oops:
Clipping seedheads is a good thing. Look for the black rat turd looking seed heads will show for sure you have the fescue issue.
 
Ebenezer said:
most of the old timers around here don't feed mineral, and some have really nice herds of commercial cows. They have culled cattle for years that didn't work, instead of propping them up with feed and minerals. I'm not saying that's the way to manage your herd, but I know it works. When did supplementing cattle with minerals become a management tool?
Grazing KY 31 fescue? Endophyte infected KY31 is a whole different animal than other grasses.

The mineral needs are largely based on the soils and the forages where you are or should be. Once you know or can tell by observations you know that they deliver the needed supplements to the cows. In KY 31 with endophyte, the endophyte apparently masks or can interfere with copper absorption. And I think it is copper that needs zinc in combo and in quantity to be utilized. Find a chart of the US that shows selenium status of the soils. That will also help you decide if you need maximum selenium as allowed by law. So it is not all easy science.

There are plenty of good minerals around but you need to learn to read tags and get what you want. We have a group that bulk orders from a regional manufacturer and get a high grade mineral for lot less than discussed here but it is not the cheapest either. You get what you pay for if you shop around and do not get hung up on a brand name. And a lot of the elements and such are based on China prices and sources in some cases.

The easiest way to know if your cattle need minerals are observations. Do 90% (or your threshold) of them breed back on time. Are black calves born with red hair coats? Do cows and calves shed later than you want? Do your cows live in the pond in the summer or only graze in the evening and at night? Do your cows lose hooves, tail switches, walk on tip toes, pant and struggle in the summer?

Opinions: I will not do injections on minerals. A waste of my time if all of my goals are met via loose minerals. This is an opinion also: some of the higher performance type cattle probably need more mineral inputs and higher quality to retain their honor. We see that in the dairy industry where minerals of the chelate form are widely toted along with the yeast source of selenium.

As some have said, find the cows that work for what you are willing to spend and either make money or have bragging rights. But we could not run cattle as economically here if we did not use decent minerals. As an old co-worker used to say, " Been there, done that".

"Are black calves born with red hair coats?"

Care to explain this one sir? Non KY-31 related. Questioning because second year Brangus "cows" are dropping what look to be first class Red Brangus calves in some instances. Know not the gene pool as these are "grade" animals but come from good stock, but some show small signs of black baldy genes (like a "blaze" on the forehead? Cows have access to mineral block and get 5-10# of 20% cubes every other day.....amount depends on who runs the fastest and eats the fastest at the feeder bunk. Pasture plentiful, not fertilized but a Legume here and there.
 
Texasmark said:
Ebenezer said:
most of the old timers around here don't feed mineral, and some have really nice herds of commercial cows. They have culled cattle for years that didn't work, instead of propping them up with feed and minerals. I'm not saying that's the way to manage your herd, but I know it works. When did supplementing cattle with minerals become a management tool?
Grazing KY 31 fescue? Endophyte infected KY31 is a whole different animal than other grasses.

The mineral needs are largely based on the soils and the forages where you are or should be. Once you know or can tell by observations you know that they deliver the needed supplements to the cows. In KY 31 with endophyte, the endophyte apparently masks or can interfere with copper absorption. And I think it is copper that needs zinc in combo and in quantity to be utilized. Find a chart of the US that shows selenium status of the soils. That will also help you decide if you need maximum selenium as allowed by law. So it is not all easy science.

There are plenty of good minerals around but you need to learn to read tags and get what you want. We have a group that bulk orders from a regional manufacturer and get a high grade mineral for lot less than discussed here but it is not the cheapest either. You get what you pay for if you shop around and do not get hung up on a brand name. And a lot of the elements and such are based on China prices and sources in some cases.

The easiest way to know if your cattle need minerals are observations. Do 90% (or your threshold) of them breed back on time. Are black calves born with red hair coats? Do cows and calves shed later than you want? Do your cows live in the pond in the summer or only graze in the evening and at night? Do your cows lose hooves, tail switches, walk on tip toes, pant and struggle in the summer?

Opinions: I will not do injections on minerals. A waste of my time if all of my goals are met via loose minerals. This is an opinion also: some of the higher performance type cattle probably need more mineral inputs and higher quality to retain their honor. We see that in the dairy industry where minerals of the chelate form are widely toted along with the yeast source of selenium.

As some have said, find the cows that work for what you are willing to spend and either make money or have bragging rights. But we could not run cattle as economically here if we did not use decent minerals. As an old co-worker used to say, " Been there, done that".

"Are black calves born with red hair coats?"

Care to explain this one sir? Non KY-31 related. Questioning because second year Brangus "cows" are dropping what look to be first class Red Brangus calves in some instances. Know not the gene pool as these are "grade" animals but come from good stock, but some show small signs of black baldy genes (like a "blaze" on the forehead? Cows have access to mineral block and get 5-10# of 20% cubes every other day.....amount depends on who runs the fastest and eats the fastest at the feeder bunk. Pasture plentiful, not fertilized but a Legume here and there.
The local vet here told me that he gives multi min90 and draxxin for pink eye. He said....the U of Ky have tested cattle and found they were deficient in copper...even if they were on a good mineral.
Speaking of Legumes.....they say you need at least 20 to 30% clover in your pastures. I saw a picture of 30% clover and it looks like its almost solid clover. I then realized I don't have near enough clover.
 
Red calf coat is a sign of copper deficiency as hook said.

We talk a lot about forage, soil, minerals and animal response and or signs of deficiencies. What we sometimes overlook is the water quality. Water with a high sulfur content or other issues will do as much harm as the wrong minerals, the lack of minerals, ... I knew a hog farmer with scattered operations. Same hogs did terrible on a newly purchased farm. He was sure it was a pathogen so he cleaned, treated, restocked (feeders) and had the same problem. Finally he was told to check the water. Bingo.

Below discusses dairy cows but the same ideas for beef will work.

To ensure their dairy cattle are getting the correct amount of copper, nutritionists should take a water sample at least once per year to stay alert of potential antagonists, like iron or sulfates. Then, they should maintain a library of feedstuffs that includes trace mineral analysis for their dairies, instead of using book values. This will provide a reliable benchmark on where basal copper and antagonist levels are within a farm or region. When dietary molybdenum and sulfur levels are high, one may need to alter the previously mentioned recommendations. One way to do this is by maintaining a Copper:Molybdenum ration of 4:1, particularly when sulfur levels exceed 0.3 percent. As shown on the table below, when sulfur levels are closer to 0.2, this alteration is less necessary. Also, if diets are high in both molybdenum and sulfur, thus conditions are favorable for the formation of thiomolybdates, producers should consider providing a portion of the supplemental copper from a rumen available copper source to reduce absorption of thiomolybdates. Absorbed thiomolybdates will prevent absorbed copper from being metabolically available.
source https://essentialfeed.zinpro.com/20...an-what-is-needed-for-dairy-cattle-nutrition/
 
I'm considering going to the buffet mineral setup. Supposedly, the cow knows what she needs, and a using a standard commercial mineral she will overconsume to get what she is deficient in. With the buffet, she can pick and choose what she needs. I don't know of anyone locally doing it, but it makes sense to me.
 
I use TFC's Ultimate Cattle Mineral. I googled "cattle buffet mineral setup" got no hits, Do you have any links?

https://www.ourcoop.com/TFC/media/Website-Images/3.2%20Feed%20Products/PDFs/96613.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-230,618
 
ClodHopper37869 said:
I use TFC's Ultimate Cattle Mineral. I googled "cattle buffet mineral setup" got no hits, Do you have any links?

https://www.ourcoop.com/TFC/media/Website-Images/3.2%20Feed%20Products/PDFs/96613.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,-230,618
Try Greg Judy.
 

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