fertilizing a small pasture

[pdubdo]

Don't recommend mowing/brush hogging mesquite (I learned the hard way). It'll sprout 5 new trunks and makes basal spraying them later on a pain. +1 for Remedy for the mesquite. And good thread. I have a very similar situation minus the low pH just across the river.

 

[callmefence]

My mm tree shear is made for mesquite. It cuts below grade. Remedy tank is built into the frame with The nozzle just behind the shear. The spray function is not operational here. Lol. And honestly we don't use it much. I find it more efficient to remove and pile everything. Follow up maintenance is easy once you get everything cleaned off.

New video by Call me Fence

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Ranch Hand]

New to Cattle Today. I have sprayed Sendero for mesquite and have a couple of questions: 1. I noticed everyone used Remedy. With Sendero are you still looking at a year for the mesquite to be completely dead? And, 2. A the mesquite is completely dead, do I just thresh it or break it off and take it (majority of it is about 8' tall and 2" diameter)

 

[bird dog]

Yes on taking a year... sometimes two. Disturbing the plant to soon will trigger growth from the roots. When you can step on the side of the main trunk and it easily breaks off, then they are dead and ready to put in a burn pile. I usually just let the cows or mother nature break them off.

Get a routine going. Spray as many as you can this year. The leaves will burn off so its easy to see which ones you have missed. Next year respray the ones that come back and do more of those you didn't get to the first year. Consider it a three year project to get them under control and then yearly maintenance for new ones.

Make Remedy about 25% of your herbicide mix for better results. If the plants are small and you are spraying foliage, make sure all the leaves get wet to where they are starting to drip. Use a surfactant. If you are doing the basal bark treatment, spray completely around the trunk a about 18" off the ground until the fluid starts running down the trunk.

With the trees you describe your best bet is 75% Sendero. 25% Remedy mixed with Diesel. No surfactant needed with Diesel. You can treat with basal bark treatment year round but it seems to work better when its hot and dry and the foilage will let you know the product has entered the trees system.

 

[Ranch Hand]

Yes on taking a year... sometimes two. Disturbing the plant to soon will trigger growth from the roots. When you can step on the side of the main trunk and it easily breaks off, then they are dead and ready to put in a burn pile. I usually just let the cows or mother nature break them off.

Get a routine going. Spray as many as you can this year. The leaves will burn off so its easy to see which ones you have missed. Next year respray the ones that come back and do more of those you didn't get to the first year. Consider it a three year project to get them under control and then yearly maintenance for new ones.

Make Remedy about 25% of your herbicide mix for better results. If the plants are small and you are spraying foliage, make sure all the leaves get wet to where they are starting to drip. Use a surfactant. If you are doing the basal bark treatment, spray completely around the trunk a about 18" off the ground until the fluid starts running down the trunk.

With the trees you describe your best bet is 75% Sendero. 25% Remedy mixed with Diesel. No surfactant needed with Diesel. You can treat with basal bark treatment year round but it seems to work better when its hot and dry and the foilage will let you know the product has entered the trees system.

Thank you bird dog, that's exactly what I need to know. I'm new at this and your information is very helpful. These days, surfactant is cheaper than diesel - is diesel the better surfactant?

 

[bird dog]

I believe Diesel works better on basal bark spraying for its penetrating properties. Use a cheap pump up sprayer with the diesel because it gets nasty in a hurry and eats the seals up.

 

[Ranch Hand]

Good deal. Thanks for your response!

 

[Hippie Rancher]

FYI, mesquite fixes nitrogen and pumps nutrients up from deep underground. in a planted pasture I am sure it is a pita, but in rangeland cows browse it and it is often our first green of the year. the flowers are high protein and the honey is delicious. where it gets more water (and less wind?) the trees make good shade and the wood is really good for heating and cooking. fallen beans can be a problem for naive horses, especailly after rain but otherwise also good feed. (but will sure spread more plants in the manure)

 

[1982vett]

FYI, mesquite fixes nitrogen and pumps nutrients up from deep underground. in a planted pasture I am sure it is a pita, but in rangeland cows browse it and it is often our first green of the year. the flowers are high protein and the honey is delicious. where it gets more water (and less wind?) the trees make good shade and the wood is really good for heating and cooking. fallen beans can be a problem for naive horses, especailly after rain but otherwise also good feed. (but will sure spread more plants in the manure)

If mesquite is all the land will grow, fine. Left alone it will ruin and take over good pasture land in just a few years.

Doubt I'd be concerned about it if it took 1000 acres to run 50 head. Hell, anything that grows in those conditions is a plus. But if you can run 100 head on 300, mesquite is not your friend.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

If mesquite is all the land will grow, fine. Left alone it will ruin and take over good pasture land in just a few years.

Doubt I'd be concerned about it if it took 1000 acres to run 50 head. Hell, anything that grows in those conditions is a plus. But if you can run 100 head on 300, mesquite is not your friend.

50 head to 1000? pure LUXURY!

there is grass too, and some of the best is actually growing right under the mesquites where it benefits from the litter produced by them. a lot of people actually believe the mesquites steal all the water and nutrients and that grass won't grow under them, but if you actually go look that is the place cattle will hit early on. (why "experts" often claim allelopathy, since they didn't see anything growing under there when they went to look for 10 minutes one day of one year, or just read about it)

not saying they can't get too thick or be a huge pain, but a lot of times when they get ploughed up and you see a nice grass response it is more due to ground disturbance than eliminating brush. around here when brush poisoning occurs, it is the several growing season rest that actually produces grass, not the dead brush.

 

[1982vett]

In dry conditions, grass does grow better and stay greener longer if it gets some shade. Evidence of that has shown up the past month in the yard where I park trucks, trailers, tractors and equipment. Also the yard that gets partial shade from the trees takes less water to keep green.

 

[tcolvin]

Also, anybody have thoughts about using dried, composted chicken manure this time of year?

Chicken compost is good for grass , and thistles, weeds and what ever else the chicken has processed. I use it when I can get it and just spray later.

 

[SoilBuilder]

Hello,

I have 20 acres of coastal bermuda in North Texas that have been hayed hard and generally ignored by the previous owner. At least 25% weeds and lots of mesquite. Got a soil test which shows pH 5.7, N 0, Phos 8.

With today's prices, it will cost $2300 to replete N and Phos (I don't have a tractor so I have to pay extra to have it spread.) I didn't even ask about lime yet, but I assume that will cost even more $.

I am using rotational grazing and only have 2 cow-calf pairs at the moment - planning to increase stocking rate to around 7 cow-calf pairs.

Not planning to hay. I want to plant ryegrass in the fall, and I'll also spray the mesquite.

My co-op suggested Grazon, but I have fruit trees and don't want to go the kill everything route, if possible. I have a lot of clover in some areas (probably because the grass is so sparse.)

So questions ...

If I fertilize without a herbicide, is that just a waste of money? Will letting the land "rest" for a year help (since I have so few animals), or will this just make the weeds worse? Do I need to lime with a pH of 5.7?

Does anyone think fertilizer prices will go down next year?

I am new and trying to learn. Thanks so much!

How big are the mesquite?

What type of clover? In my opinion, clover is your friend.

Grazon doesn't kill everything, glyphosate kills everything (at an appropriate rate). I wouldn't use either. Sure, Grazon has a residual that works against the reseeding of your weeds, but it also hinders the reseeding of your desirable plants and plantings. I use a generic 2, 4-D. Sometimes I'll use a mixture of Patriot and Remedy where use of 2, 4-D is restricted. I seem to get relatively good control of young mesquite this way.

This year I am going to try Sendero on my problem mesquite. Those that I've sprayed several years now without successfully killing them.

I've been running about a cow(pair) to 7 acres since 2012/13. I once used 18 tons of fertilizer a year running a cow to 3 acres plus cut enough hay to feed my own and sell enough hay to offset some of the fertilizer cost. At the time fertilizer was ~$250 a ton, not the $1000+ it is now. I haven't put out a total of 18 tons over the last 7 or 8 years. Even with the erratic rainfall I have more forage than I need. I do not sell hay any more but do cut excess pasture for the hay I use and keep the barns mostly full.

My recommendation…no more than 4 cows/pair for a couple years. Then you can add another or two as the pastures recover. Rotate grazing and weed/mesquite control. If you can't help yourself, a little fertilizer if you must. Leave the Agribusinessman's playbook on the shelf. Their are still plenty of lemmings following it to keep him fat and happy.

Shredding, some will say it's a wast of grass…but it does return unused forage (and weeds) to the soil. Also helps ryegrass and winter grasses get established.

It takes time to do it this way. Your not going to make a fortune with 4 cows, but your not spending one trying to run 7 either.

 

[SoilBuilder]

Good day, you may wish to study Jim Elizondo's "Total Grazing" system for initiating long-term humus creation in the soil so you can wean yourself off of using expensive fertilizer products that do not have long term benefits.
Soil Secrets LLC makes TerraPro® and the associated Protein Crumblies® products that are proven to generate humus in the soil.
The use of herbicides and dewormers are detrimental to the long term health of the life in the soil and kills the dung beetles that can help sequester nitrogen in the soil from the cow dung.
i planted thornless hershey honey locust seedlings in my pasture this year. Their light shade will increase the growth of the bahiagrass in the summer, add nitrogen to the soil, and the pods they produce will produce a valuable source of winter fodder.
In his YouTube videos, Greg Judy mentions a formula for the judicious application of tree poison (i forget the names) to kill unwanted trees in the pasture.
i broadcasted ball clover seed in my bahiagrass pastures last year and it is starting to come up strong now without competing with the grass, this adds nitrogen to the soil too.

 

[Warren Allison]

Those liquid calcium products are a LOT less expensive than lime. You can put liquid nitrogen and 24d in the sprayer and put it all out at once.

 

[BFE]

Those liquid calcium products are a LOT less expensive than lime. You can put liquid nitrogen and 24d in the sprayer and put it all out at once.

Do you have some experience with the liquid lime products then? They make some pretty big claims, I've never used them myself but I wouldn't be afraid to try.

 

[BC]

Those liquid calcium products are a LOT less expensive than lime. You can put liquid nitrogen and 24d in the sprayer and put it all out at once.

The liquid lime is not as effective. Here is a result demonstration done in a neighboring county that compared ag lime, pelletized lime and liquid lime.

https://counties.agrilife.org/smith/files/2021/02/2020-Liming-Study.pdf

 

[Warren Allison]

Do you have some experience with the liquid lime products then? They make some pretty big claims, I've never used them myself but I wouldn't be afraid to try.

Not personally. A neighbor used it, liquid nitro and 24D on his bermuda field this spring. He cut hay this week, and it sure had grown well. He tests after every cutting, so he will see here in a few daays how much oit raised his PH. I didn't need any this year, but when I do, I am going to try it. It costs less than lime, and is supposed to act faster. I use liquid nitrogen for my 1st application in March every year, mostly to put out my herbicide with. . It is cheaper than granulated Nitrogen, and you dont have to run a spreader truck then a sprayer for your herbicide. Using liquid calcium, you'd have 1 trip across your filed instead of 3 when you use bulk lime, granualted nitro, and spray for weeds.

 

[greybeard]

I used Sendero on several different species back over in E Texas. Never found anything it would actually control, much less kill outright. (It was on sale at the local feedstore because no one else wanted to try it)

Remedy with or without diesel is hard to beat.

 

[kenny thomas]

Not personally. A neighbor used it, liquid nitro and 24D on his bermuda field this spring. He cut hay this week, and it sure had grown well. He tests after every cutting, so he will see here in a few daays how much oit raised his PH. I didn't need any this year, but when I do, I am going to try it. It costs less than lime, and is supposed to act faster. I use liquid nitrogen for my 1st application in March every year, mostly to put out my herbicide with. . It is cheaper than granulated Nitrogen, and you dont have to run a spreader truck then a sprayer for your herbicide. Using liquid calcium, you'd have 1 trip across your filed instead of 3 when you use bulk lime, granualted nitro, and spray for weeds.

I would be curious to see the analysis on the liquid nitrogen. Is it nitrogen, calcium or a mixtuure of both. Nitrogen will lower the PH.