Fertilizer Prices

[chevytaHOE5674]

Hmm…no takers on reducing herd numbers to fit what the land will actually produce on its own????

In the frozen tundra that would be zero animals December thru May....

 

[ClinchValley86]

Annuals can be very high yielding and also very expensive. Think corn. SS based mixes pencil out the best here in summer. Oats and brassica based mixes pencil out the best here in fall. And these mixes do a lot more for the soil biology then mono crops.

Making balage with annuals just adds more cost. So, you need to put together a "forage chain" plan for an extended grazing season. Ideal situation would be to graze calves or finishing animals to maximize VOG. This kind of feed is way too good for cows.

Grazing annual mixes is a fast way to increase OM, but buying in hay may to cheaper. Run the numbers.

Exactly my thinking. What kind of numbers do you think possible on high energy summer mixes?

What would be an ideal mix in your opinion? I have really liked your logic to most things since I joined this board.

If hay is cheap. Yes. I don't see it being cheap anymore. Unless cattle prices stay high, which I very much doubt.


Are you thinking prices will be even better for 2024?

 

[ClinchValley86]

I planted 3 acres this fall, was late because of no rain until end of oct. should be ready for spring grazing.
I hay neighbor's field and want to buy the rest I need so I can convert more to winter and summer cover crops.
Have been reading up on the finishing on covers.

What mix did you plant on the 3 acres?

 

[kenny thomas]

Hmm…no takers on reducing herd numbers to fit what the land will actually produce on its own????

Yes and no. My soils will respond very well to anything added. It's worthwhile at this year's prices. Last year I bought hay instead.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Hmm…no takers on reducing herd numbers to fit what the land will actually produce on its own????

At the prices I've been getting hay for, and what that imported hay is doing for my soil. It's been a positive I think.

You do have a very valid point.

My problem is I only have 60 acres of pasture. Currently close to 80 head here. Cows, calves, yearlings. And 9 2.5 year old steers. Way way way overstocked.

I figure I'm getting hay off of 40 acres.

 

[kenny thomas]

At the prices I've been getting hay for, and what that imported hay is doing for my soil. It's been a positive I think.

You do have a very valid point.

My problem is I only have 60 acres of pasture. Currently close to 80 head here. Cows, calves, yearlings. And 9 2.5 year old steers. Way way way overstocked.

I figure I'm getting hay off of 40 acres.

I'm overstocked for the winter also. But I also am feeding hay from other farms so I hope it works out. I have 55 cows 2 bulls and 40 calves on 15 acres at the moment.
I will start selling some soon and in the spring 25 cows will go out to other farms so my numbers will be back good.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I'm overstocked for the winter also. But I also am feeding hay from other farms so I hope it works out. I have 55 cows 2 bulls and 40 calves on 15 acres at the moment.
I will start selling some soon and in the spring 25 cows will go out to other farms so my numbers will be back good.

I think our plan is gonna work out well, Kenny. Can't thank ya enough for the education. It helped me more than you know.

 

[kenny thomas]

I think our plan is gonna work out well, Kenny. Can't thank ya enough for the education. It helped me more than you know.

Maybe you can find some spent mash to supplement their protein with. Lol

 

[ClinchValley86]

Maybe you can find some spent mash to supplement their protein with. Lol

I like it.

 

[1982vett]

In the frozen tundra that would be zero animals December thru May....

Yes and no. My soils will respond very well to anything added. It's worthwhile at this year's prices. Last year I bought hay instead.

Ours would too…if we could get some meaningful rainfall regularly. Being able to make bank on rainfall ended around 2010. Reducing the herd is working for me….so far.

 

[pnw-farmer]

What mix did you plant on the 3 acres?

cereal rye, vetch, purple top turnips, fava beans and some extra kale seed I had.
Working on summer mix on smart mix very helpful tool.
Cover crop seeds are limited out here, found dealer down in Oregon and one up north. Can't afford shipping.

 

[Stocker Steve]

What kind of numbers do you think possible on high energy summer mixes?

What would be an ideal mix in your opinion? I have really liked your logic to most things since I joined this board.

If hay is cheap. Yes. I don't see it being cheap anymore. Unless cattle prices stay high, which I very much doubt.

A problem with annual mix profit is covering the OH and land costs. So most people use them in the fall after harvesting a grain crop that has already paid the OH for that year. A few people try to spread OH cost by growing multiple forage crops per year. Both of these approaches are difficult in the north.

If you are going hard on fertility improvement of TILLABLE land my sequence is:
1) Bale grazing during frozen season, then take one grazing on surviving plants in May
2) Burn it down, spread residue clumps, and seed a SS, RC, Italian rye grass mix. Byron Seeds has some very good information. Welter Seed has lower prices. Consider 40 units of N.
3) Graze or wrap first crop, graze second crop. Could get a more crops in the mid-south. Consider lime and more N.
4) Grow a RR crop to prep seedbed. Soybeans are my favorite.
5) Establish a grass/legume mix. Consider what class of livestock needs this forage quality level?

This will give you much better results than a composite soil sample and a chemical fertilizer salesman.

 

[sstterry]

I'm overstocked for the winter also. But I also am feeding hay from other farms so I hope it works out. I have 55 cows 2 bulls and 40 calves on 15 acres at the moment.
I will start selling some soon and in the spring 25 cows will go out to other farms so my numbers will be back good.

I thought you fed stockpile from Jan-April?

 

[kenny thomas]

I thought you fed stockpile from Jan-April?

Normally I do have stockpile but with our dry fall I only have enough to get to around Feb 15th this year. I have been unrolling some hay on the dry days already.

 

[ClinchValley86]

cereal rye, vetch, purple top turnips, fava beans and some extra kale seed I had.
Working on summer mix on smart mix very helpful tool.
Cover crop seeds are limited out here, found dealer down in Oregon and one up north. Can't afford shipping.

That smart mix calculator is pretty dang useful. I played with it last year.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Normally I do have stockpile but with our dry fall I only have enough to get to around Feb 15th this year. I have been unrolling some hay on the dry days already.

You did REAL good to get how much you ended up with. Mine didn't do worth a darn. Fescue really didn't grow much. It was all brown warm season stuff. Critters didn't do well on it.

 

[Silver]

A problem with annual mix profit is covering the OH and land costs. So most people use them in the fall after harvesting a grain crop that has already paid the OH for that year. A few people try to spread OH cost by growing multiple forage crops per year. Both of these approaches are difficult in the north.

If you are going hard on fertility improvement of TILLABLE land my sequence is:
1) Bale grazing during frozen season, then take one grazing on surviving plants in May
2) Burn it down, spread residue clumps, and seed a SS, RC, Italian rye grass mix. Byron Seeds has some very good information. Welter Seed has lower prices. Consider 40 units of N.
3) Graze or wrap first crop, graze second crop. Could get a more crops in the mid-south. Consider lime and more N.
4) Grow a RR crop to prep seedbed. Soybeans are my favorite.
5) Establish a grass/legume mix. Consider what class of livestock needs this forage quality level?

This will give you much better results than a composite soil sample and a chemical fertilizer salesman.

Why all the chemical N? Doesn't pencil out here.

 

[pnw-farmer]

2) Burn it down

I don't want to use chemicals to terminate covers. Does harm to soil health plus I don't really want to be around that much of it every year.
Regulations on chemicals are getting tight in WA. Same thing with applying N it lowers PH then I need to apply lime a vicious circle. Thats why I am trying to find a more natural way. Looking into building a crimper. Unfortunately, some is going to be trial and error. All my covers are for forage and soil health. County Ext. has a no-till drill they rent by the acre with $100 min.

 

[Silver]

I don't believe any reasonable level of success will be had no tilling into live sod. Glyphosate is an indispensable step in the no till so seeding process. It has been proven that glyphosate used in a forage rejuvenation situation does no long term damage to soil health. Glyphosate as used by many row crop farmers where it is applied several times per season every year is a different topic I think.

 

[pnw-farmer]

I don't believe any reasonable level of success will be had no tilling into live sod.

I agree on the 3 acres I planted I tilled about 3 inches to break up sod and to get good soil contact. Planted late in season due to no fall rain so germination. Went from warm to cold no fall this year. Going to try shallow till to terminate covers and replant. This is why I am doing small plot.