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Fencing

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RD-Sam

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I have some fencing questions, have several areas I am going to do differently too. I have about 2 to 3 acres I'm going to fence in for a barn and corral, on the outside I was going to put up 60" Non-Climb fence to keep dogs and coyotes away from the cattle, on the inside I was going to put up 2 X 6 pressure treated boards to keep the cattle off the fence. Using 6 X 6 pressure treated posts and was going to leave them 4 to 6" higher than the fence and string a row of barbed wire inside and out side for good measure! 8 foot spacing.

The rest of the property I was thinking of going to a 4 X 4 or 4 X 6 pressure treated post, with 60" Non-Climb fence on the outside, with a hot wire to keep the cattle off the fence. Same at the top, a row of barbed wire inside and out.

On the posts, would you put them level or perdendicular to the terrain where there are elevation changes?

I can't be there all the time, and that is the reason for the fence the way I wanted to do it, don't want any dogs or coyotes getting after any calves. I also didn't want the cows getting on the fence and tearing it up. Any opinions? :dunce:
 

SRBeef

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I am not sure about the need for the "non-climb" fence - whether or not that would really keep out dogs and coyotes. I'll take your word for it. You don't give any indication of where you are located.

However unless you have just won the lottery and want to rival the KY racehorse places, I would suggest you forget the 2x6 boards on the inside of the fence and run maybe 3 hot wires - one at about 20" for calves, one at 32" (cattle nose height) and one near the top of the 6 x 6 posts.

These will be much more effective, much lower cost and much lower maintenance than 2 x 6 boards. Use the Gallagher screw-in plastic eye type insulators (with a slot) screwed into your 6 x 6 posts. Electrify these with a 6 joule or so charger and 4 good 8 ft ground rods and you will have NO trouble with cattle pushing on the fence.

I would definitely NOT use barb wire nor electrify the inside of a corral. There use your boards with posts spaced close - maybe 6 ft. Rough sawn Oak is much better than the treated 2 x 6's in a corral.

This is not for the corral but the acreage. jmho.
 

RD-Sam

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SRBeef":11m5m3p7 said:
I am not sure about the need for the "non-climb" fence - whether or not that would really keep out dogs and coyotes. I'll take your word for it. You don't give any indication of where you are located.

However unless you have just won the lottery and want to rival the KY racehorse places, I would suggest you forget the 2x6 boards on the inside of the fence and run maybe 3 hot wires - one at about 20" for calves, one at 32" (cattle nose height) and one near the top of the 6 x 6 posts.

These will be much more effective, much lower cost and much lower maintenance than 2 x 6 boards. Use the Gallagher screw-in plastic eye type insulators (with a slot) screwed into your 6 x 6 posts. Electrify these with a 6 joule or so charger and 4 good 8 ft ground rods and you will have NO trouble with cattle pushing on the fence.

I would definitely NOT use barb wire nor electrify the inside of a corral. There use your boards with posts spaced close - maybe 6 ft. Rough sawn Oak is much better than the treated 2 x 6's in a corral.

This is not for the corral but the acreage. jmho.

I wasn't trying to compete with anyone, just trying to protect valuable cattle from wild dog packs and coyotes. Barbed wire won't stop anything from coming through, the neighbors have five strands on the steel posts and my dogs walk right through it. :lol2:

I think I will skip the row of barbed wire inside the fence, probably no need for it with the boards and hot wire. I wasn't going to put up boards except the corral, I knew better than to hot wire that, that wouldn't be very nice with them bumping around in there. So you think I need to space at 6 foot in the corral? I can get 2 X 6 X 8' pressure treated for about $5 each, oak would probably be twice that, or maybe three times?
 

grubbie

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I would follow the elevation. I set my posts, then measured up from the ground for the first board (mine is actually sucker rod) then evenly spaced from there up. My corral is 5 1/2 feet high, if I tried to keep it level, there would be some spots that were only 4 feet high.
Also, maybe this is something to consider; I used pipe and sucker rod. In order to keep the horizontals close enough together to keep cows and calves heads getting through, I would have had probably 15 rails,...a lot of sucker rod. I just went with 3 rails. One at 12 inches off the ground, the top one at 52 inches above the bottom rail, and one in the middle. I then welded those 52" by 16 foot galvanized hog panels to that. Made a great corral. I realize you are using boards but you could still staple them up there and maybe save you on some wood?? Of course you won't want to skimp on any kind of strength in a crowding area, but maybe you could use them in the main corral. Just a suggestion.
 
A

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RD-Sam":2gytr9c5 said:
show time":2gytr9c5 said:
What is a non-climb fence?

Here is a link. http://www.redbrand.com/products/produc ... roductID=4

Oh I understand now...like goat fencing. And I would suggest every 8' in your corral, since that is the length the boards come in, and at a pretty darn good price might I add! I really don't see a need for running barbed wire on the inside and outside of your fencing, but that is up to you of course. Your project sounds kinda pricey to me, but we don't have many probs w/ wild dogs as you do. You sure have a lot of work ahead of you...yikes! Have fun ;-) ;-)
 

SRBeef

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RD-Sam":3nyh6oqs said:
So you think I need to space at 6 foot in the corral? I can get 2 X 6 X 8' pressure treated for about $5 each, oak would probably be twice that, or maybe three times?

From my own experience, if you use 2 x 6 treated pine in a corral with posts spaced at 8 ft on center it will not be strong enough, given the poor quality of most treated pine lumber.

Realize the strength of the corral wall/fence - the force required to break a board - changes with the square of the distance between posts, not linearly.

I had a 2x6 treated pine fence around my waterer with RR tie posts 8 ft apart and it was NOT strong enough to have even gentle 1500 lb cows in there jostling each other! Since my RR tie posts were set in concrete and not moveable, I went to used steel guard rail which is another option for a corral.

If you use oak you may be able to find a sawmill and buy rough sawn full 2" x 6" (or wider) boards right from a sawyer. I agree - you can't really afford to buy these from a lumber yard.I never thought that. Oak is probably ok with posts at 8 ft centers. If you stay with pine treated 2x6's (actually 1-5/8" x 5-1/2") I would strongly recommend 6 ft post spacing. There are a lot of sawmills and Amish sawyers in WI who will sell you oak or other hardwood boards.

This is a job you don't want to do but once so do it right. I think your non climb mesh with a couple or three #12 hot wires in the inside sounds good for a perimeter fence. I misunderstood about the boards - I thought you were saying mesh plus boards all the way around. Good luck.
 

buckmaster33

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For what it's worth....I bought some rough cut oak 2x6's this fall for a small corral at 65 cents a board foot from a local sawmill. At $5 a piece for a 8 ft pine treated board...thats 63 cents. Think I would rather take my chances with the oak! And, lumber prices have taken a beating lately, so they may be a bit cheaper now....of course, not sure if you have the luxury of having the local sawmills where you are? Regardless, good luck with whatever you come up with.....every farmer loves to fence!
 

grannysoo

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Non climb fence is not going to do anything except add cost to the project. Unless you're raising horses or goats, you don't need it.

Now I don't mean to get in your shorts here, but talk about overkill.... you got some big time overkill going on with this fencing project. Dogs, coyotes, etc. are easily cured by a $100.00 jackass. You may not be able to be there all the time, but put you 1 jackass in the pen with the cows and you won't have any problems.
 

m&kCattle

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grannysoo":3de0w7cg said:
Non climb fence is not going to do anything except add cost to the project. Unless you're raising horses or goats, you don't need it.

Now I don't mean to get in your shorts here, but talk about overkill.... you got some big time overkill going on with this fencing project. Dogs, coyotes, etc. are easily cured by a $100.00 jackass. You may not be able to be there all the time, but put you 1 jackass in the pen with the cows and you won't have any problems.

Absolutely! They work wonders. As for a corral kind of depends on what you are working in them. Ours are 6 ft high and all steel but we work full size bulls in them and they like to jump and hook :)
 

Bez+

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8 foot boards? Not always.

Well, boards come 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 and 20 foot lengths at the store in our town.

High pressure areas put the posts closer. Less pressure you can space them.

I would not use finished wood. Dimensionally it is not as big as advertised and therefore it is often not as strong as the rough cut wood. Presure treated wood? Nope - not in my corral.

I would go with rough cut full sized lumber. 2 X 6 sounds good but go bigger. 2 X 8 or even X 10 if you want.

Find some nice rails 6 inches in diametre and run them over the top of your posts - that way when some beech tries to jump - and even if it is a 6 foot wall - she will - the rail takes the brunt of the hit and often does not break - saves the boards below.

We spike them in to the top of the posts with 12 inch spikes. The rail adds an extra 6 inches of height to the fence. Too tall and too strong should never be words in your vocabulary when building any type of fence or corral.

Forget the wire and the "no climb" - waste of money.

Valuable cattle? Glad you own some good stock - most of us own decent stuff that is worth schite - but I guarantee you that there is no coyote coming into a pen with Momma on guard. Buy a dog and a gun - you will need them anyways.

As for full sized cows - no coyote gonna' bother her.

Posts? Do what you want - there are ways to make both ideas work. If you are building pens and corrals I tend to go perpendicular - just throw a longer post in when I need it and add a row of boards where needed.

Long fence runs? I tend to follow the contour - but I use wire. Personally I think it looks better - but do what you want and I guarantee you no one is going to knock what you do. Remember, those boards do not bend so you are still going to have square corners or custom cutting when you try to follow the contour.

If you are away and the cows can tear up your fence you did not build it strong enough. Unless you put up 6 foot plus small hole wire and bury it real deep you will never stop a determined dog. But Momma sure as heck will.

You do what you have to do to keep YOU happy - just build it bloody strong and higher than you THINK it needs to be.

Regards

Bez+
 

RD-Sam

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grannysoo":19f1169o said:
Non climb fence is not going to do anything except add cost to the project. Unless you're raising horses or goats, you don't need it.

Now I don't mean to get in your shorts here, but talk about overkill.... you got some big time overkill going on with this fencing project. Dogs, coyotes, etc. are easily cured by a $100.00 jackass. You may not be able to be there all the time, but put you 1 jackass in the pen with the cows and you won't have any problems.

Say the cows are allowed to roam a 10 acre or 20 acre lot, how are the jackasses about staying close to the cattle. There have been calves and cows killed in the area, so I don't think I am going overboard. Loosing a 2k or a 5k cow isn't worth scrimping on fencing, I kinda hate to leave their fate to a jackass too! :lol2: Although it may not be a bad idea as added precaution.
 

RD-Sam

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SRBeef":liam7gq4 said:
RD-Sam":liam7gq4 said:
So you think I need to space at 6 foot in the corral? I can get 2 X 6 X 8' pressure treated for about $5 each, oak would probably be twice that, or maybe three times?

From my own experience, if you use 2 x 6 treated pine in a corral with posts spaced at 8 ft on center it will not be strong enough, given the poor quality of most treated pine lumber.

Realize the strength of the corral wall/fence - the force required to break a board - changes with the square of the distance between posts, not linearly.

I had a 2x6 treated pine fence around my waterer with RR tie posts 8 ft apart and it was NOT strong enough to have even gentle 1500 lb cows in there jostling each other! Since my RR tie posts were set in concrete and not moveable, I went to used steel guard rail which is another option for a corral.

If you use oak you may be able to find a sawmill and buy rough sawn full 2" x 6" (or wider) boards right from a sawyer. I agree - you can't really afford to buy these from a lumber yard.I never thought that. Oak is probably ok with posts at 8 ft centers. If you stay with pine treated 2x6's (actually 1-5/8" x 5-1/2") I would strongly recommend 6 ft post spacing. There are a lot of sawmills and Amish sawyers in WI who will sell you oak or other hardwood boards.

This is a job you don't want to do but once so do it right. I think your non climb mesh with a couple or three #12 hot wires in the inside sounds good for a perimeter fence. I misunderstood about the boards - I thought you were saying mesh plus boards all the way around. Good luck.

OK, so I need 6 foot centers in the corral. I may cut back to a 4 X 6 for the rest to save money, would do a round post, but I would prefer it look the same all over the property. Fence is a must in my mind, but I may consider the regular cattle fence, it is cheaper.
 

RD-Sam

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Bez+":38cnpng8 said:
8 foot boards? Not always.

Well, boards come 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18 and 20 foot lengths at the store in our town.

High pressure areas put the posts closer. Less pressure you can space them.

I would not use finished wood. Dimensionally it is not as big as advertised and therefore it is often not as strong as the rough cut wood. Presure treated wood? Nope - not in my corral.

I would go with rough cut full sized lumber. 2 X 6 sounds good but go bigger. 2 X 8 or even X 10 if you want.

Find some nice rails 6 inches in diametre and run them over the top of your posts - that way when some beech tries to jump - and even if it is a 6 foot wall - she will - the rail takes the brunt of the hit and often does not break - saves the boards below.

We spike them in to the top of the posts with 12 inch spikes. The rail adds an extra 6 inches of height to the fence. Too tall and too strong should never be words in your vocabulary when building any type of fence or corral.

Forget the wire and the "no climb" - waste of money.

Valuable cattle? Glad you own some good stock - most of us own decent stuff that is worth schite - but I guarantee you that there is no coyote coming into a pen with Momma on guard. Buy a dog and a gun - you will need them anyways.

As for full sized cows - no coyote gonna' bother her.

Posts? Do what you want - there are ways to make both ideas work. If you are building pens and corrals I tend to go perpendicular - just throw a longer post in when I need it and add a row of boards where needed.

Long fence runs? I tend to follow the contour - but I use wire. Personally I think it looks better - but do what you want and I guarantee you no one is going to knock what you do. Remember, those boards do not bend so you are still going to have square corners or custom cutting when you try to follow the contour.

If you are away and the cows can tear up your fence you did not build it strong enough. Unless you put up 6 foot plus small hole wire and bury it real deep you will never stop a determined dog. But Momma sure as heck will.

You do what you have to do to keep YOU happy - just build it bloody strong and higher than you THINK it needs to be.

Regards

Bez+

I will consider the top rail, I need to see what I can find at the lumber store. I'm most likely going to stay with the pressure treated. How about a 2 X 8 cap on top of the post and nailed into the top rail?
 

1982vett

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Check your prices on the 4x6's. A 6" x 8' post is/was cheaper than a 4x6-8 around here by about $2.
 

RD-Sam

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1982vett":3j0v0peo said:
Check your prices on the 4x6's. A 6" x 8' post is/was cheaper than a 4x6-8 around here by about $2.

#2 treated Cypress in a 6 X 6 X 8 here is $14.97, I think the 4 X 6 treated pine was $12 and change, they have came down several dollars in the last couple of months.
 
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