fencing questions about metal vs. wood

[BryanM]

I was hoping someone could help me with a few fencing question.

I was thinking about replacing my pourly built fence corners/bracing and gate posts. The corners are getting pulled out of the ground with five strand tensile and all my gate posts are leaning. (I Hate that look). my high tensile has 4 hot wires and I need to run an electrified fence. Current posts are 5-6in wood posts. So for the questions

1. will schedule 40 steel 2 3/8 pipe be ok to cement in the ground for corners and bracing and for gate bracing? or do I need to go thicker? or bigger?

2. will the steel posts rust quickly in concrete? or how do I prep steel posts from rusting?

3. how do I tye in electrified tensile to steel posts?

info you might need to know- clay type soil, fencing in 10 acres, in nw ohio so wett conditions do exsist and cannot find a hydraulic fence post pounder to rent, I have a 3pt auger.

 

[Anonymous]

check out the go bob web site he sells this type stuff a lot !could give good ideas possibly
i think you would need bigger dia. myself,if tensile is not ele, youd be fine but eletiricfied dont think its good idea !

 

[greybeard]

Current posts are 5-6in wood posts

That's why they are being pulled out of the ground, 5-6" diameter is too small diameter for corners and gate bearing posts, and perhaps because they weren't set deep enough, or were not 'set' (backfilled & tamped) correctly when first installed.
The larger the diameter post you use, the more resistance to movement you have. An 'H' type corner of 8" cross ties or 8" cut-to-length utility poles have worked here in wet East Texas for decades and decades, set 4' deep with no leaning or heaving out of the ground. You can also increase the surface area the post has by increasing the depth of the hole significantly, tho shouldn't be necessary if a large diameter post is used.

(that's also another aspect you 'may' have happening--frost heaving of the post. I have a friend in Maine, that has big problems each winter of deep frost pushing all his posts up. He has to go pound his posts back down every spring)

If you are going to use smaller diameter posts (of any material) you will have to increase the total cross section presented to hole sidewall of resistance, usually by adding another post to each side of the corners or even a diagonal to a deadman, or find some way to set them much deeper.

 

[callmefence]

Deep, deep, deep way more important than Width, Forget the concrete. You drive em deep enough, they will hold.
This old boy guarantee , you pull one of his braces with 7 wires. He will fix it and refund your money.




https://youtu.be/ECI7eRAT8PQ

 

[BryanM]

How deep are we talking? they where set at 36 in deep and tamped with steel bar?

 

[BryanM]

has anyone ever used a bobcat breaker to drive posts in?? Maybe if you converted the bit. maybe cutting the tip off the breaker and welding a cup style plate? would that work?

 

[greybeard]

How deep are we talking? they where set at 36 in deep and tamped with steel bar?

36" won't work here for very long especialy if it's in soft ground or rains a lot and often (like right now).
It all depends on your soil and what's down there and how much rainfall you get.
For me, 6"-8" of topsoil, then about 5-6' of red or whitish clay, and below that is the 1st water sand (ground water). It's why no one uses small dia (2 3/8"-2 7/8") pipe for corners here--they'd have to drive them thru the water sand & into the impermeable clay boundary below that sand for them to hold and that might be 15' of pipe in the ground. It was tried by a new fence company startup a couple years ago and they had to go back and replace all their corners when the 10' deep corners pulled. They replaced the pipe corners with 8" X8 1/2 ' treated wood posts at 4' deep and never had any more problems.
The corner H in the pic below would never hold anywhere on my place except maybe back in 2011's drought , even if the ground portion were twice as long but a cross tie 4' deep will last 30 years and never give an inch.

 

[callmefence]

The corner H in the pic below would never hold anywhere on my place

[/quote]

I sure wouldn't think so. You forgot to drive em in the ground :mrgreen:
A deadman would sure help to.
Prefab braces are no good.

How deep are we talking? they where set at 36 in deep and tamped with steel bar?

Not deep enough unless your in rock. Really depends on soil. I generally shoot for 4 to 5 feet on the 2 h post. And 6 to 7 feet on the stubby post.
If your going to use wood go as deep as you possibly can. It's easier to spend time getting right than having to redo it.
The practice of twisting brace wires between h post in a x helps, but is inferior. I'll post a picture later today of how I like to do it.

Years ago made a collar to fit on a 60 pounds breaker hammer to drive to post. Had to stand on the back of the truck to use it . But it would put em in. I see no reason why a skid steer breaker couldn't be made into a driver.

 

[callmefence]

Brace wires anchored to it's own deadman. A concrete pier separate from the post.