Fence Repair

[greybeard]

I little tip here and it applies to using either hand operated post hole diggers or a 3 pt auger.
Even wearing gloves, if I have to put a post in on an old fence, I end up with bloody hands, and usually a hole that angles in toward the fence--a natural reaction trying to avoid contact with the wire.
Keep a piece of corrogated 'tin' or R panel sheet about 3'x 7' around your place. If you have to do any hole digging on an existing barbed wire fence, put the bottom of the tin right next to the bottom wire, then poke a couple of holes in the tin so you can wire it up to the top wire temporarily. Keeps your hands from getting cut up using the hand diggers or the auger from getting entangled in the wire. Make sure the tin is about 1 1/2 foot taller than your hand posthole diggers so yo don't catch the top edge of the tin with your hands when you thrust the diggers downward. (OUCH!)

Another trick on a tee post driver, is to cut 2 "Vee" in opposite sides of the driver, (I do it on opposite the sides the handles are on but it will work either way if your driver is a long one) so the vee slides down over the top 2 wires as you drive the tee post. Keeps ya from having to hold those wires out of the way. (you can probably buy this somewhere, but I did my own on an old home built tee post driver)

 

[skyhightree1]

thanks for those great tips lol I did get snagged a few times yesterday. I will be sure to do that from this point on.

 

[3MR]

I looked at the link on floating post and am with greybeard on not understanding why the support beams don't just slide along the ground.

The NRCS has a corner brace design that is close to this, but the ends that are floating in the link picture are attached to a object sunk in the ground, not floating on top.

 

[3MR]

I looked at the link on floating post and am with greybeard on not understanding why the support beams don't just slide along the ground.

The NRCS has a corner brace design that is close to this, but the ends that are floating in the link picture are attached to a object sunk in the ground, not floating on top.

I want to try it, but id like to know how / why it works first. It looks much simpler than building H braces.

 

[dun]

I looked at the link on floating post and am with greybeard on not understanding why the support beams don't just slide along the ground.

The NRCS has a corner brace design that is close to this, but the ends that are floating in the link picture are attached to a object sunk in the ground, not floating on top.

The tension wire from the bottom of the floating brace around the ost is what keeps it from sliding out. That's also how you apply the pressure to the top of the post/floating brace to keep the post erect and the fence tight.

 

[skyhightree1]

I took the come a long and chain off post moved back 1 inch still tight though but i will be putting the h braces in soon.

 

[greybeard]

Ok. Having done 4 of these now, on different soil types, I think I understand why the whole thing just doesn't slide out in direction of strain.
Look first at a conventional "H" post setup. We all know, on a good fence, stretched tight, that a single post won't stand up straight for long, unless 1 or 2 things are done. Use a much bigger diameter post and/or bury it much deeper in the ground. It's all about the underground surface area the post encounters should it try to move. The deeper the post is, the more square inches/sq feet of compacted soil it has to overcome in order to move. Same holds true for using a wider post. More square area. Most of us don't like to use a 14" or bigger post and don't like to have to bury that post 5' in the ground, so we just add a second post of the same diameter and bury it about the same depth as the opposite post. This in effect, doubles the surface area underground, meaning the strain is absorbed by the additional surface area presented to the 2 posts. Pretty basic stuff--been done for centuries no matter which position the horizontal member is installed.

Floating braces are also all about surface area, but with a twist. Angles (geometry) are involved. At first glance it really does appear the whole apparatus would just slide in direction of strain, but that isn't possible without some angles changing in the process.

(The "35 deg" text in the floating brace diagram is in error. It should be somewhere in the 60-70 degree angle--certainly greater than 45 degrees)

In the above diagram, you see the comparison of an "H" post setup. The 2 surface areas (cross sections "A" and "B" of the 2 vertical posts) are combined thru use of the horizontal brace to resist the wire strain. Nominally, some resistance is added by the back side of each post's surface should lower part of the back of the posts try to move to the right. This tries to happen when you have a soft top few inches, a hard dry area a little further down, then a soggy or soft bottom substrate. The posts want to 'pivot' about half way down--but can't.

In the floating brace, it also uses surface area. The single vertical post (with it's cross section "A") provides the same front and back surface area as a single post in the "H" setup. The diagonal brace rests on a flat support--rock, board, steel plate. The surface area of this support is approximately that of the second vertical post in the "H" design. It's these combined cross sections "A" and "B" surface areas that resist the strain. So why doesn't the whole thing slide in direction of strain?
It can't, without the angles of the diagonal brace changing. The only way the angles can change, is if the support (rock) is pushed down into the ground, or if the bottom end of the diagonal post moves upward. Hopefully, the support rock has enough cross section to resist being pushed down, and that just leaves the problem of the diagonal moving upward. It cannot, as Dun stated, due to the ratchet block and wire locking it securely to the bottom of the big vertical post. In soggy ground, just use a rock with a bigger cross section area.

Another question that popped up in my mind was "Why does the diagonal brace post need to be so long?"
"Brace needs to have a length equal to the measurement of your top wire to the ground level--doubled".
I found out why. Using a short post (6 1/2 ft) creates a sharp angle--a little less than 45 degrees. When you tighten the ratchet block, the force is much closer to a vertical force than a horizontal force--it tends to push the big vertical post out of the ground. This can really be a problem in regions with a deep frost line, since there is already a significant upward force in winter--no sense helping the frost with it's job. Using a longer diagonal, moves to applied force "closer" to a 90 deg or horizontal force, and won't push the vertical post out of the ground.

In my case, my top wires are around 55" from ground, so that diagonal needs to be about 110" long. That's over 8' long. Hard to find around here, but a treated 4x4 8 or 10 ft long will work.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on 'em and I'm sold on this type corner or end brace. They aren't imo, as visually pleasing as an "H" post setup, but the cows don't care so I won't either. Not having to dig that 2nd big deep hole and not having to handle a 2nd cross tie or utility pole is wonderful!!

(oops, meant to post this in the floating brace thread--I guess it works here too)

 

[lavacarancher]

I'll admit I didn't read all of the responses but it appears to me there is no diagonal wire, at least on the left corner/brace post. It looks like there is a diagonal wire on the right side corner/brace post but it is running the wrong way. The support wire needs to run from the bottom of the corner post to the top of the brace post on both sides of the fence. If you will rig it this way i doubt the posts will pull out of the ground or move, no matter how wet.

Rigging the brace/corner posts in this manner takes a lot of the pressure off the corner post and moves it to the brace post. I think there is a picture of a setup like I'm describing elsewhere in this post.

Also, I never really liked the top rigged cross post because you get no mechanical advantage on your diagonal wires. Moving the cross or support pieces down about 2 feet gives you mechanical advantage - kinda like using a breaker bar with a cheater pipe when you are trying to break loose a really rusted not.

Hope this make sense. Hard to describe without using my hands.

 

[accidental breeder]

its always the fences