Feedlot Back charging

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redluv

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What exactly do you mean by dead animals? How long in the feedlot before death? Custom feeding or not?
 

ga. prime

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I stand against it unless you have retained ownership and then with stipulations. That's the only sensible way for that to work.
 
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redluv

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SirLoin2":2jx0ejx5 said:
Redluv,
Re:
What exactly do you mean by dead animals?
How long in the feedlot before death? Custom feeding or not?

Any steer or heifer that you send to a feedlot whether you relinquish ownership or not, for the duration of it’s stay, if it dies or gives birth.
SL
In that case, if it's custom feeding, yes charge if its in the contract. If not custom feeding, no. The cattle industry is a gambling game, as a feedlot owner/manager, you're gambling with deaths or pregnancies if you buy heifers.
 

aussie_cowgirl

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Not if it walks off the truck alive. And no to the pregnant heifers either. Like breeding and farming there are risks that come with it. Why should feedlots be exempt from these risks? Like mentioned, death on the feedlot and calving heifers are all part of the feedlot game, I know because I worked on one. You know where the cattle from, you keep appropriate records, just don't buy from that producer again.
 

ga. prime

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SirLoin2":jyjca9fh said:
Ga. Prime,
Re:
I stand against it unless you have retained ownership and then with stipulations.
And what would those stipulations be?
For starters, that she wasn't bred after the sale and that the animal didn't die from causes accrued after the sale.

Why not after you relinquish ownership?
Are you saying caveat emptor? ( let the buyer beware )
SL
That's the way it's always been and for good reason. The risk is figured in the price you're paid. Have you ever been to a registered sale where it wasn't stipulated that any injury or death to an animal is the responsibilty of the buyer from the time it leaves the sale ring? I haven't. It would be an endless nightmare for sellers if any other rule applied. It is completely and rightfully out of the hands of the seller what the animal is exposed to and how it is treated after it leaves the ring.
 

Douglas

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We need to remember that feeders that can make a profit can pay more for heifers and steers than when they are not. Over the long term the feeder is my customer, and in any business you have to try to solve your customer’s problems to succeed. I am also in the construction business and there is a legal term “latent defect” that protects buyers from a defect he could not found with a reasonable inspection upon buying. There is no way a buyer during an auction could detect a recently pregnant heifer in the ring.
What you also have to remember that if a number of pregnant heifers becomes just part of the cost of doing business, the guys with the pregnant heifers are taking money from the guys who spent the time and money to keep it from happening to his heifers, because everyone is getting a lower average price.
In other words, we are all in this crazy thing together, and we need to improve the efficiency of the whole system any way we can. I just had a replacement heifer have a calf at 17 months and was lucky the both made it okay, but I could have easily sold that heifer last fall not knowing she was pregnant. I will do my best to never let that happen again because it is the right thing to do. And some people will only do the right thing if it cost them money.
 

Brandonm22

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Caveat Emptor. I sell it at the stockyard and I cash my check, I never want to see it again or hear anything about it ever again. I am not selling it with any guarantees, warranties, or promises implied or otherwise stated. If the feedlots can't make money, then go out of business and we (or somebody else) will happily grass fatten. MOST deaths in the feedlot have more to do with them starting them too hard, too fast on high energy grains without a longer transitional persiod and don't have anything to do with how they were cared for pre-feedlot.
 

ga. prime

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Brandonm22":1qdc555j said:
Caveat Emptor. I sell it at the stockyard and I cash my check, I never want to see it again or hear anything about it ever again. I am not selling it with any guarantees, warranties, or promises implied or otherwise stated.
This is what works.
 

dyates

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I stand against backcharging unless the buyer wants to pay extra for the guarantee. That's what cph sales are for and why the prices should be higher at a cph sale.
 

Tod Dague

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SirLoin2":1vmkojj3 said:
OK, now let me be a little more specific.
A backgrounder or producer ships a trailer load of heifers and steers to a feedlot and is paid cash for them.
Should he be back charged for deaths and/or pregnancies ?
“Backgrounder” being defined as : one who buys steers and heifers at sale barns (auctions) pastures them, and some times gives them feed and hay, then ships them to a feedlot.
SL
You buy a bred six year old cow from an individual, she dies on your farm while calving, should you back charge the previous owner even though there were warranties applied?
 

aussie_cowgirl

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There should be no back charging at all, regardless of whether it's back grounder or producer. Back paying for an animal that dies on a feedlot is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. At least with a bred cow or heifer I can understand a little why back pay could be warranted but an animal could die for a number of reasons. And without an autopsy you wouldn't be able to know FOR SURE why that animal died. Which brings in a whole heap of other costs. Buying cattle comes with a risk. People who think they are owed something cause so much trouble. Next thing you know people will be suing each other because a darn steer died on a feedlot.
 

Jim62

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Seems to me that the feedlots need to look into buying some insurance. Or maybe they could get some government stimulus money to cover their losses......... :cowboy:

Whenever I sell anybody anything, there is NO guarantee or warranty of any kind. And, buyer and seller both know this. :tiphat:
 

Jim62

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And on top of that, if all the cattle in the lot belonged to you and the feedlot operator (50-50) and one died, I'd be willing to bet my stimulus check that it would have been yours............ :lol:
 

hillsdown

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How about issuing a fat check for all of the producers out there that supply healthy cattle for the feed lots. The heifers that come in open and the steers that are banded or cut correctly. What about all the feeders that have been vaccinated and have a vet cert. with them ,as well as every feeder that is never sick a day in their life and continues to gain every day..

Feed lots already doc for heifers when they do not even know the background of the animal, they used to pay top dollar for vaccinated and animals that come in open but too many people were lying to get a premium so they stopped doing that unless they know the producer and their operation.

So in this business all you really do have is your reputation..
 

Brandonm22

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hillsdown":28kdnbvn said:
How about issuing a fat check for all of the producers out there that supply healthy cattle for the feed lots. The heifers that come in open and the steers that are banded or cut correctly. What about all the feeders that have been vaccinated and have a vet cert. with them ,as well as every feeder that is never sick a day in their life and continues to gain every day..

Feed lots already doc for heifers when they do not even know the background of the animal, they used to pay top dollar for vaccinated and animals that come in open but too many people were lying to get a premium so they stopped doing that unless they know the producer and their operation.

So in this business all you really do have is your reputation..

Exactly, the heifer dock is already in place and it is 9 to 12 cents a pound across the board. The feedlots also have their real data that shows that preconditioned calves don't perform any better than run of the mill calves.......whether that is due to people lying or people mishandling the vaccines you can debate. The feedlot industry vet who was on 'No Better Bull' a few months ago theorized that it was due to rancher's mixing up a bunch of modified live vaccine leaving it in the hot truck in no cooler exposed to sunlight while they run up the cows. If you don't handle a MLV vaccine with the greatest of care, killed vaccines actually are more effective. And as for reputation, around here if it runs through the ring the order buyers don't know whose calf it is. Yours? Mine? the crazy Tennessee guy's?
 

Tod Dague

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SirLoin2":22ng9y7k said:
Feedlot Back charging

Thid question is a spin off of “ feedlot pregnancy “.
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewto ... =8&t=56539

I support feedlots back charging for pregnant and dead animals.
Where do you stand on this issue?


SL
If they are going to back charge on the dead and prg cattle then they need to share in the premiums when the cattle bring them. :nod:
 

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