feeding hay

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CowpokeJ":cw0egxhi said:
We can hope for a lot better calf prices too, but I don;t think either one is going to happen. Probably a btter chance with your choice of weather then the calf prices though
I ain't worried about the calf prices I already figured it out all I need to make money is $.50 pr lb from a 6 wt to make it and then I will be rolling in the dough might even be able to quit doing all the custom work I do also if I can get this for them[/quote]

I guess if you could send me your calculator that would really be great...I can't get mine to work that well.[/quote]
I was being a smarta$$ and my calculator is the same one 4CT uses on figuring that YG0 and the same one he calculates acreage wth when he is planting 15 acres in 50 minutes
 
Alberta farmer":x7z7fcew said:
jka: Don't know what your bales weigh, but if they are standard round bales at 1100 lb. at 12-16 bales a week for 43 cows that is 43.85-58.47 lb./cow/day? Don't know if a cow could get 58 lb. of dry hay in her guts!
Again don't know your circumstances but feeding from Oct. 7 to May 15 is 221 days. If you bought your hay for 3 cents a lb. it would cost you $290- $387/cow?
In todays tough times that is a pretty hard cost to take? Maybe you should try to find a way to lower your feed costs?

Our alfalfa bales aren't full 1100 lbs, they are probably around 900 lbs because the hay field was really wet. The green feed is 1100 lbs though. The mix is 2 green feed to 4 alfalfa bales. Still last year was the exact oppisite of this year. Our green feed was around 900 lbs ( wet fields) and our alfalfa was 1100 lbs. The feeding ration was 3 and 3. We bale all of our hay, the cost to bale it for us is about $6 - $8/bale. So the price per cow is only about $105.30/cow, thats with the extra hay bales that we won't need. I am glad to say though the cows have slowed down on their eating, we are feeding around 8-10 bales now a week. The tempature is alot warmer than last month and the skies are some what clearer, except today. As for the cows eating so much last month, here is picture of one of our cows that calved early this year. She looks like she could calve again! :lol2:
mable.jpg
 
Alberta farmer":3ir5f4qu said:
jka: Don't know what your bales weigh, but if they are standard round bales at 1100 lb. at 12-16 bales a week for 43 cows that is 43.85-58.47 lb./cow/day? Don't know if a cow could get 58 lb. of dry hay in her guts!
Again don't know your circumstances but feeding from Oct. 7 to May 15 is 221 days. If you bought your hay for 3 cents a lb. it would cost you $290- $387/cow?
In todays tough times that is a pretty hard cost to take? Maybe you should try to find a way to lower your feed costs?

Our alfalfa bales aren't full 1100 lbs, they are probably around 900 lbs because the hay field was really wet. The green feed is 1100 lbs though. The mix is 2 green feed to 4 alfalfa bales. Still last year was the exact oppisite of this year. Our green feed was around 900 lbs ( wet fields) and our alfalfa was 1100 lbs. The feeding ration was 3 and 3. We bale all of our hay, the cost to bale it for us is about $6 - $8/bale. So the price per cow is only about $105.30/cow, thats with the extra hay bales that we won't need. I am glad to say though the cows have slowed down on their eating, we are feeding around 8-10 bales now a week. The tempature is alot warmer than last month and the skies are some what clearer, except today. As for the cows eating so muchlast month, here is picture of one of our cows that calved early this year. She looks like she could calve again! :lol2:
mable.jpg
 
I was just thinking about this yesterday. Now I know my numbers aren't perfect. I am assuming there is value in our hay, which there is not because of mold, large chunks being frozen when fed and generally a lot of waste :mad: (30%+). Also, there are heifers and a couple open cows in with the fall cows with calves, so the consumption numbers are screwy.

Spring cows (as of the week Jan 4-10/09) are consuming 36 lbs of low-quality mixed hay with a daily cost of $1.12/head/day

Fall cows with calves at foot (as of the week Jan 4-10/09) are consuming 42 lbs of low-quality mixed hay with a daily cost of $1.31/head/day

Yearlings (without factoring in grain cost) are consuming 26 lbs of low-quality mixed hay with a daily cost of about $0.81/head/day

The average temperature day to day right now is about -25C, so these cows are pretty well at their max for consumption.

Based on the heavy consumption due to low temps, increased waste percentage and heavy snow (which cut down our stockpiled forage grazing time by over a month), for the spring calving herd, I estimate the wintering cost this year will be one of our highest in years at about $201.00/cow. Normally it would be $150 or less per spring cow. :cowboy:
 
jka300 said:
We bale all of our hay, the cost to bale it for us is about $6 - $8/bale.
Not trying to be a smarta$$ but if you can cut rake and bale hay for $6-$8 a bale I need to let you come do all of mine this yr our fuel cost was more than $6 per bale not including machinery cost

also on the alfalfa do you not fert or anything that has to be figured in the cost of your hay not the baling but the actual cost per lb of hay als the original seeding cost to plant the alfalfa

I custom bale and I charge $18 a bale to cut rake and bale and I clear about $2 a bale and I have been doing it for yrs

so I just can't swallow this cost of $6-$8 a bale

I am from the show-me state so I guess someone will have to show me
 
his $6 or $8 a bale cost is prolly because everything is paid for.if you bought new equipment your cost would be $10,000 a year for 5yrs on equipment plus fuel supplies an repairs.so total bale cost on all new equipment is like $30 a bale over 5yrs if you based it on 350 bales a year.now if you used all top end used equipment $5000 a year for a pre bale cost of $14 a bale plus the above expenses.
 
bigbull338":356s9s7e said:
his $6 or $8 a bale cost is prolly because everything is paid for.if you bought new equipment your cost would be $10,000 a year for 5yrs on equipment plus fuel supplies an repairs.so total bale cost on all new equipment is like $30 a bale over 5yrs if you based it on 350 bales a year.now if you used all top end used equipment $5000 a year for a pre bale cost of $14 a bale plus the above expenses.
still doesn't matter you have to figure the cost of maintenance and replacement on that equipment
I bale over 2000 bales a yr and my equipment isn't new but is in excellent shape and the cost to bale hay is about $13 a bale with fuel at $2.50 per gal last yr it cost right at $16 because of fuel cost

on new eguipment including one new tractor and One good used tractor baling 350 bales a yr for 5 yrs your cost is $79 pr bale less value of equipment at the end of 5 yrs not counting fuel and maintenance
I have to bale 1800-2000 bales per yr to justify owning the equipment I have

That is why a person that only uses 300 bales a yr can buy hay cheaper than they can raise it because if they use the land they use for hay ground to run more cattle and that will pay for hay
I have ran the #s alot and it always works out or they can run a few more cows and stock pile that grass in late summer and cut down on the amount of hay needed
 
Angus Cowman":39swwzo7 said:
so I just can't swallow this cost of $6-$8 a bale

I can't swallow that either. When you factor in time, fuel, maintenance, materials, repairs, it's hard to justify. When you start adding in fertilize, it's impossible. You may can do it for a year or two without fertilize, but that won't last forever. You can't always take without giving back.....
 
The reason I can say my cost is around $6 - $8 a bale is because of the following reasons.
All of our machinery has been debt free since I can remember. We don't put fertilizer on our hay fields because we don't need to. Our fields love to grow hay, we average 3 - 4 bales an acre right until we plow it up. Our fuel runs around $0.97 a litre, locked it in. My dad was a mechanic for John Deere, all repairs we can do and plus we can get discounts on parts. Also we haven't had a brake down since we parted way with my uncle's farm, wonder why? :x Our hay fields are all close to our farm, the furthest one is 1 km. As for the seed part, we always seed grain with our hay mixes, so the grain pays for all the expense to seed it. I should also clear up what the $6 is for. We do some custom straw baling for our neighbour. I can give a big list of reasons why it's only $6 expense for us but I will just stop at saying he helps with expenses.
 
When figuring the cost of owning the equipment you need to remember that after 5 years that equipment doesn't have a value of $0.00 Plus you more than likely use the tractors for more than just hay and a tractor is pretty much a neccessity.

For 350 bales a year I agree you can't justify new equipment, but it can make sense. Maybe not when hay is $20 a bale, but when it jumps to $50-$60 you'll be money ahead.

For example the first baler I had I bought for $1500 and I baled about 1500 bales with it before I wanted something faster and I sold it for $800, cost per bale $0.47 (not counting minimal repairs). The next baler I bought for $4500 and baled about 2000 bales with it before I sold it for $3900, cost per bale: $0.30. The entire time I owned those 2 balers I used the same mower that I bought for $1495 and rake - $500. These cost around $0.57 bale not counting repairs. Granted there were a lot of frustrations to having older equipment, but if my newer equipment can end up even costing 4 times more money per bale I'll be happy. Our tractors are all older also (newest one is an '89) and they were bought used and still hold roughly the same value as they did when we bought them. But the amount of time being used for hay is probably about 1/3 that they are used for other purposes. Land is the biggest cost, followed by fertalizer , then probably fuel.

I bale between 450-600 bales per year.
 
jka300":73nkl9wc said:
I should also clear up what the $6 is for. We do some custom straw baling for our neighbour. I can give a big list of reasons why it's only $6 expense for us but I will just stop at saying he helps with expenses.

Makes a big difference. Years ago Dad could sell enough hay to pay for all the expenses in supporting his cows, so saying his calf crop was all profit doesn't give a true picture of what is really happening.
 
1982vett":3m2f5jm2 said:
jka300":3m2f5jm2 said:
I should also clear up what the $6 is for. We do some custom straw baling for our neighbour. I can give a big list of reasons why it's only $6 expense for us but I will just stop at saying he helps with expenses.

Makes a big difference. Years ago Dad could sell enough hay to pay for all the expenses in supporting his cows, so saying his calf crop was all profit doesn't give a true picture of what is really happening.
Exactly my point and also every hr you run a tractor you have to pencil in what that hr cost you
 
ChrisB":jb4p3uda said:
When figuring the cost of owning the equipment you need to remember that after 5 years that equipment doesn't have a value of $0.00 Plus you more than likely use the tractors for more than just hay and a tractor is pretty much a neccessity.

For 350 bales a year I agree you can't justify new equipment, but it can make sense. Maybe not when hay is $20 a bale, but when it jumps to $50-$60 you'll be money ahead.

For example the first baler I had I bought for $1500 and I baled about 1500 bales with it before I wanted something faster and I sold it for $800, cost per bale $0.47 (not counting minimal repairs). The next baler I bought for $4500 and baled about 2000 bales with it before I sold it for $3900, cost per bale: $0.30. The entire time I owned those 2 balers I used the same mower that I bought for $1495 and rake - $500. These cost around $0.57 bale not counting repairs. Granted there were a lot of frustrations to having older equipment, but if my newer equipment can end up even costing 4 times more money per bale I'll be happy. Our tractors are all older also (newest one is an '89) and they were bought used and still hold roughly the same value as they did when we bought them. But the amount of time being used for hay is probably about 1/3 that they are used for other purposes. Land is the biggest cost, followed by fertalizer , then probably fuel.

I bale between 450-600 bales per year.
lets use this as an example you bought your tractor say in 1995and it is a 1989 model and gave $15000.00 for it with 2500 hrs ok , You need to replace it you buy a 2003 model with 2500 hrs on it, it now cost $25000.00 and you get $11000.00 trade in or you sell yours so to keep the same (equivalent) equipment the hours you but on your tractor cost you $14000.00 that all has to be figured in

And I also don't buy that you can buy a tractor and run it 5 or 10 yrs and get the exact same as you paid for it I have bought ttractors and equipment for to long , yes I have bought some that I use a few yrs and sold them for roughly the same amount but to replace them I had to spend more than I sold it for

That is like me buying a a truck with 50K miles on it and driving it for a 100K andselling it for the same money it don't happen when you figure in replacement cost

Sorry if I pissed anyone off but peple need to start running cattle operations as a business and you have to figure every penny to do it that way or else you will wind up like the Auto makers

My and my wifes only income is from cattle and custom farm work and anyone that says there is alot of money in it doesn't figure it right or they have an outside income that pays all of their household and day to day bills
 
Angus Cowman":3ghaid8u said:
And I also don't buy that you can buy a tractor and run it 5 or 10 yrs and get the exact same as you paid for it.
I can see and have heard the same thing. But their are some things working in the background so to speak. These people are probably just putting a couple hundred hours a year on it instead a thousand or more. Then their is inflation compounded over time. If you get the same $25,000 for a tractor today that you bought 10 years ago, the buying power of that $25,000 is about 50% of what it was 10 years ago. Kind of a smoke and mirror kind of deal cause you didn't get the same value in return.

I'd say some 10 year old tractors may be worth today what they were bought for 10 years ago. Others that get used day after day all day for years are not.
 
I basically quit haying about 10 years ago. Quite frankly the cost of equipment, fuel,reseeding and fertilizer didn't make sense. I baled about 600 large round hay bales and 500 straw. The fact was my fields were getting too rough and less productive because the alphalfa was going. To rip up and reseed was going to be costly. My haybine needed replacing and no way could I cost in a $38,000 haybine!
On top of that it was a time conflict with my reclamation business.
So I bought a few more cows and bought my hay. I continued to bale straw as I have some crop share land so get straw for the cost of baling. When the baler gives up the ghost(13 years old) I will probably just buy straw....if I still have any cattle.
Never regretted quitting growing hay. Let someone else have the headaches. Buy in hay and reap the rewards of someone elses fertility. Just my opinion.
 
after 7yrs of cutting all the hay on halves an paying custom balers.i can still come out a heck of alot better buying equipment an baling the hay.the only kicker is having the labor to get the hay baled.i cant see shucking out $5000 a yr to a custom baler.but i do that.an in the process they cant get to the hay in a timely manner.but ill keep messing with custom balers till i get poed to bad.
 
bigbull338":156x45zc said:
after 7yrs of cutting all the hay on halves an paying custom balers.i can still come out a heck of alot better buying equipment an baling the hay.the only kicker is having the labor to get the hay baled.i cant see shucking out $5000 a yr to a custom baler.but i do that.an in the process they cant get to the hay in a timely manner.but ill keep messing with custom balers till i get poed to bad.


Just answer these few ? for me

how many bales of hay do you feed a yr?

How many bales a yr do you have baled?

How many more cows culd you run a yr if you didn't bale hay

or how many fewer months would you not have to feed hay if you stock piled the hay ground and used it for winter pasture
 
Angus Cowman":31eqqk1g said:
bigbull338":31eqqk1g said:
after 7yrs of cutting all the hay on halves an paying custom balers.i can still come out a heck of alot better buying equipment an baling the hay.the only kicker is having the labor to get the hay baled.i cant see shucking out $5000 a yr to a custom baler.but i do that.an in the process they cant get to the hay in a timely manner.but ill keep messing with custom balers till i get poed to bad.


Just answer these few ? for me

how many bales of hay do you feed a yr?

How many bales a yr do you have baled?

How many more cows culd you run a yr if you didn't bale hay

or how many fewer months would you not have to feed hay if you stock piled the hay ground and used it for winter pasture
i dont mind answering your qs.1right now we feed between 100 an 120 a yr.2 baled 180 off 60acs this year.
3 can run 150 cows now.
if we baled everything 2x could prolly run 225 cows.
3a cant always buy hay cheap enough an haul it in.
 
Angus Cowman":1e0sgdrp said:
bigbull338":1e0sgdrp said:
after 7yrs of cutting all the hay on halves an paying custom balers.i can still come out a heck of alot better buying equipment an baling the hay.the only kicker is having the labor to get the hay baled.i cant see shucking out $5000 a yr to a custom baler.but i do that.an in the process they cant get to the hay in a timely manner.but ill keep messing with custom balers till i get poed to bad.


Just answer these few ? for me

how many bales of hay do you feed a yr?

How many bales a yr do you have baled?

How many more cows culd you run a yr if you didn't bale hay

or how many fewer months would you not have to feed hay if you stock piled the hay ground and used it for winter pasture
Although these are straight forward questions and seem like they would be easy to answer they are in fact next to impossible for me to answer. So instead I will just tell you how I feed hay, and calculate for number of bales needed.
Last year I fed out about 600 lbs. per cow. I had plenty of stockpiled forage and the wild rye and clover came in early.
This year I am feeding quite a bit and feel that I will use up about 1/3 of my supply. My supply consists of some really poor hay, and some fairly high quality hay. I have been feeding the low quality hay thus far. The reason for this is that the cattle have not been declining in body condition and the poop pile are hitting the ground leaving the desirable height for maintenance. If it looks a though the rye and clover is growing fast enough then I will allow the to go down a little in body condition. They will make it up fast when they get on the clover. I reserve the higher quality just in case. If I do not have to feed it then that will cut my fertilizer bill the next time I need to make hay.
Now we come to the hay field. If my barn is relatively full I do not make hay. The field is used as pasture leaving enough time for it to grow some stock piled forage. If my hay reserves are low, the field will be hayed until the barn is full. This still leaves enough for the field to grow and leave stock piled forage.
Then we have extra forage in the pastures and have to decide how to use it best. Some can be sold on the ground for hay while I could also buy stockers to eat up the extra. Managing my grass this way has kept me from selling off some darn good stock because of drought.
I have only seen the back of my barn once since I filled it the first time.
 

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