feeding hay

[grannysoo]

cows arent eating much hay too much good graze out there in the rye field--- we are phasing out hay altogether in the next few years as we no longer need it or want it
T

Never say never. Things change and the weather is not predictable. :nod:

 

[dun]

I need to move to the land of perfection where there is never a surprise calving , never a drought or flood, forage alwasy grows to the optimum withour fertilizer and hay isn;t ever needed!

 

[Angus Cowman]

I need to move to the land of perfection where there is never a surprise calving , never a drought or flood, forage alwasy grows to the optimum withour fertilizer and hay isn;t ever needed!

Dun you left out never an open cow and never a dead calf
when ya find it I wanna know and I will be you neighbor :lol: :lol:

 

[4CTophand]

I need to move to the land of perfection where there is never a surprise calving , never a drought or flood, forage alwasy grows to the optimum withour fertilizer and hay isn;t ever needed!

Well Dun, there isn't ever a surprise calving as we haven't had to assist a cow or 1st calf heifer in 10+ years; I guess it is just good management and using good CED/ BW Bulls.

Drought is a possibility, but like every other smart businessman some planning ahead never hurt anyone, so that is why we always plant TiffLeaf 3 Millet and if we don't need it we bale it 3 times between May and September or in September we let it head out and mow it down and sell a few Dove Hunts on Labor day weekend.

As for floods, here again Nature is very unpredictable, but here again we have been lucky in that regard, but we dont have much bottom land here and with the continued use of our Aerway aerator run off is just non-existent; here again some good management is helpful.

And 2nd to last, but not least since we planted out Winter annuals in October we have been fortunate to have over 8 inches of rainfall-we have so much grazing and feed so little hay it is such a pleasure not to have to mess with the worst form of forage (nutritionally) on Earth.

AND now finally last---- we dont concentrate our efforts on HAY ---we let our hay meadows get rank on purpose so we make our money back on our forages we put up in Hay--- we understand by doing this that we have a low protein hay, but TDN doesn't suffer significantly even with a crummy 5% grass hay. Instead, for about $3 per ton, we inject our bales with a combination of energy/minerals (which aren't cheap these days--when is the last time you bought a few tons of high Mg Mineral>?)/ and Protein booster. and after we inject our 5% CP/50% TDN hay we end up with a 10% CP/50% TDN hay bale for 1/3 the cost.

Keep growing and baling and feeding and paying that high dollar fertilizer bill -- fine with me... , but if it is just the same with you--I will stick to my intuition and management schemes, where we concentrate on making a living and producing a quality product for you and others to enjoy at the steakhouse

T

 

[Angus Cowman]

CT I know you are new here so let me give you alittle bit of info. there are people from all over the world on these boards and one thing to keep in mind is that what works in your region may not work in another. Dun and myself are in a region where some years we only have to feed hay a marginal # of days and some yrs we feed for several months it doesn't matter if you have 500 acres of winter annuals they don't work if they are covered with snow or ice so you either feed hay or starve your cows, some of the others are from texas and the south have had a drought for a few yrs so ya either feed hay or sell the cows or both,then ya got the Northern set (canada included) who if they didn't feed hay they could not raise cows but 4-5 months a yr.
Then ya got the ones from South Africa and Australia who have enlightened us to a totaly different style of raising animals
So just remember before you start criticizing how someone does things their environment and weather play the largest part of management strategy

AC

and if I left any region out it wasn't intentional just trying to make a point

 

[1982vett]

cows arent eating much hay too much good graze out there in the rye field--- we are phasing out hay altogether in the next few years as we no longer need it or want it
T

Well Dun, there isn't ever a surprise calving as we haven't had to assist a cow or 1st calf heifer in 10+ years; I guess it is just good management and using good CED/ BW Bulls.

Drought is a possibility, but like every other smart businessman some planning ahead never hurt anyone, so that is why we always plant TiffLeaf 3 Millet and if we don't need it we bale it 3 times between May and September or in September we let it head out and mow it down and sell a few Dove Hunts on Labor day weekend.

As for floods, here again Nature is very unpredictable, but here again we have been lucky in that regard, but we dont have much bottom land here and with the continued use of our Aerway aerator run off is just non-existent; here again some good management is helpful.

And 2nd to last, but not least since we planted out Winter annuals in October we have been fortunate to have over 8 inches of rainfall-we have so much grazing and feed so little hay it is such a pleasure not to have to mess with the worst form of forage (nutritionally) on Earth.

AND now finally last---- we dont concentrate our efforts on HAY ---we let our hay meadows get rank on purpose so we make our money back on our forages we put up in Hay--- we understand by doing this that we have a low protein hay, but TDN doesn't suffer significantly even with a crummy 5% grass hay. Instead, for about $3 per ton, we inject our bales with a combination of energy/minerals (which aren't cheap these days--when is the last time you bought a few tons of high Mg Mineral>?)/ and Protein booster. and after we inject our 5% CP/50% TDN hay we end up with a 10% CP/50% TDN hay bale for 1/3 the cost.

Keep growing and baling and feeding and paying that high dollar fertilizer bill -- fine with me... , but if it is just the same with you--I will stick to my intuition and management schemes, where we concentrate on making a living and producing a quality product for you and others to enjoy at the steakhouse

Save that and tell it to us again when you are living on 10% of you normal rainfall for the last 7 months. ;-)

 

[dun]

Well Dun, there isn't ever a surprise calving as we haven't had to assist a cow or 1st calf heifer in 10+ years; I guess it is just good management and using good CED/ BW Bulls.

You've never had a cow or heifer calve when you weren;t expecting it? Apparantly some folks have.

 

[TexasBred]

Well Dun, there isn't ever a surprise calving as we haven't had to assist a cow or 1st calf heifer in 10+ years; I guess it is just good management and using good CED/ BW Bulls.

You've never had a cow or heifer calve when you weren;t expecting it? Apparantly some folks have.

dun....apparently we guys just don't understand "perfection". ol' 4C has apparently cornered the market on it. We gotta do it his way or sell out.

 

[4CTophand]

CT I know you are new here so let me give you alittle bit of info. there are people from all over the world on these boards and one thing to keep in mind is that what works in your region may not work in another. Dun and myself are in a region where some years we only have to feed hay a marginal # of days

Well Angus thats all very interesting info and quite redundant to say the least and it sounds like you have a firm grasp of the obvious, which is par for the course most times.

Since you are in a region where "you only have to feed hay a marginal # of days" -- sounds like you could plant some winter annuals and get off the hay wagon. .... after all it is cheaper but a lil more work which may be the reason you are against it due to a town job and part timing it on the prairie; and dry hay is the worst form of forage you can feed (Nutritionally).
I dont care that this is the way your bunch has been doing it for x number of years--- Cured hay is basically very nutritionally deficient no matter where you live..... this is my point and my point only
there is more than one way to skin a cat-- and the old way of putting up hay is counter-productive to your profit margin. And the boo hoo -ing about the drought-- don't think for one minute you boys are the ony people in the country to be suffering from that debacle. I see it all the time ranchers not planning ahead for a potential dry spell whether it turns out to be 1 month or 7 and they spend their time complaining about it instead of doing something productive.... Not wanting to be critical of other ppls management schemes but it reminds me of the cartoon seeing the nimrod hitting the brick wall over and over again like a broken record.... sometimes you have to think outside the box boys,,,, thats all I am saying--- My great great grandfather started ranching in 1841 and in those days they were doing things differently and over the years we changed them or modified them to meet our current requirements--- thats all there is to it; sometimes you have to modify what you do-- to make a living in this show. I wish you luck and I am hopeful more people get off the hay wagon because it is a drain on this business we are in.....

T

 

[4CTophand]

Well Dun, there isn't ever a surprise calving as we haven't had to assist a cow or 1st calf heifer in 10+ years; I guess it is just good management and using good CED/ BW Bulls.

You've never had a cow or heifer calve when you weren;t expecting it? Apparantly some folks have.

dun....apparently we guys just don't understand "perfection". ol' 4C has apparently cornered the market on it. We gotta do it his way or sell out.

No tex you can always quit and go to town and get yourself a factory job.... and leave the business of raising cattle for beef to other people that are more efficient than you are...

As for never having a cow or heifer I wasnt expecting--- NO I havent... why is this>>>? I dont know--- good management perhaps>?
Spend a lil more time with my cattle than you do>>>? perhaps... and instead of being critical of me you could get off your arrogance and learn a lil something new something pappa didnt teach you during your formative years.

everyone normally has something worthwhile to share on this board and anywhere else for that matter and I am quite sure ---more than sure you boys are fairly new to the cattle business-- you will learn unless you are too ignorant or just plain stupid and think you are the cattle Gurus of the future --- And Dun, I see your posts you have a lot to say usually but it normally doesnt make good sense. You sometimes remind me of the type of person that is the most dangerous type---- the one that really truthfully doesnt know-- but thinks he does and has a few followers hanging around that know even less like Tex here to justify your existance or you think it does. Go read my posts on ET or any thing else and it is a post formed through real experience not some internet article you found and posted in a blog. Other areas I dont post I either think the paticular subject has been well gone over or it is silly and I just dont post. you on the other hand post to all topics and knowing nothing of the subject you give out bad information... maybe you should put a rein on yourself a lttle bit here and refrain from subjects where your professionalism and knowledge leave a lot to be desired.




Good Luck and have a Merry Xmas see yall next year.............

for more good debate and understanding------------- T

 

[dun]

As for never having a cow or heifer I wasnt expecting--- NO I havent... why is this>>>? I dont know--- good management perhaps>?
Spend a lil more time with my cattle than you do>>>? perhaps... and instead of being critical of me you could get off your arrogance and learn a lil something new something pappa didnt teach you during your formative years.
And Dun, I see your posts you have a lot to say usually but it normally doesnt make good sense. You sometimes remind me of the type of person that is the most dangerous type---- the one that really truthfully doesnt know-- but thinks he does and has a few followers hanging around that know even less like Tex here to justify your existance or you think it does. Go read my posts on ET or any thing else and it is a post formed through real experience not some internet article you found and posted in a blog. Other areas I dont post I either think the paticular subject has been well gone over or it is silly and I just dont post. you on the other hand post to all topics and knowing nothing of the subject you give out bad information... maybe you should put a rein on yourself a lttle bit here and refrain from subjects where your professionalism and knowledge leave a lot to be desired.

T

Speaking of arrogance! If they don;t make sense maybe you should get out of your little corner of the perfect world and see how others are succesfull with management schemes that don;t fit your concept of what is the "right" way of doing things. You could possibly learn but I doubt it, that one size does not fit all.

 

[Angus Cowman]

CT you must not comprehend what I said about winter annuals I guess your Arrogance or blind ignorance couldn't let you read the whole post in context
I said It doesn't matter if you have 500 acres of winter annuals planted if they are covered up with ice or snow they won't feed your cows
And as you stated about us being new I would say myself and some others on here were running cows when you were $hitting yellow and wet behind the ears

So don't come on here telling everyone how smart you are and how you know it all I know of several people on here that have been implementing new ideas for along time and all these ideas work to some extent but not all ideas work all the time or at all depending on your climate
I have ran cows from Nebraska to Texas to Missouri and what works here doesn't work there and vice versa
And as for running cows and working a job in town No my wife and I neither one have a job in town all we do is ranch for a living and we do it successfully and have for several yrs
So have a great day
AC

 

[Alberta farmer]

I think what most people should realize is there no "perfect way" just whatever works for you? When I was younger I thought I knew it all...knew all the answers. One day I was telling my old uncle how he could make a lot more money if he would use a char bull on his hereford cows. He kind of laughed and said " Whatever gave you the idea I wanted to make a lot more money?" Now that kind of threw me because I thought everybody wanted to make a lot more money! I realized right then that everybody doesn't march to the same tune.
While it is admirable to try to help others by pointing out better ways(in your mind) we all need to realize people raise cattle for many different reasons and they achieve THEIR goals by many different methods...this could be said for life in general?
I do see a lot of logic in Tophands way of thinking, but that doesn't mean it will work for everyone. It certainly wouldn't work very well in Alberta or Saskatchewan. Maybe injecting poorer hay would work if the cost pencilled out, but hard to justify when our hay prices up here are so cheap.
Maybe the winter annuals thing works in his area, but I hope he realizes that they too have a cost?
I tried an aerator once on a hayfield and the only result I could see was the cost of renting it, but if it works for him with a 25% increase...then good for him!
I'm not so sure about him never having a "surprize birth" or never pulling a calf? Has he never had a malpresentation or a cow slip on ice or mud and calve early? If not he must be one of the luckiest guys around? It is a good thing to use bulls that have low birthrates(in my opinion) and manage your cows for fewer calving problems...but never help a cow in ten years? I find that truly amazing!
Maybe the best thing he could do to get his point across is try a little more humility and not come across as knowing everything? The older I get the more I realize I really don't know much. I like to talk to all sorts of people and I always believe everyone has something of value to teach me, whether it is the richest man around or the bum in the street.

 

[grannysoo]

learn a lil something new something pappa didnt teach you during your formative years.

One thing I did learn from my pappa during the formative years was that sometimes it's not what you say, it's the manner in which you say it that can be wrong.

There is plenty around for all of us to learn and that's why most of us are here. It's not unusual to see someone new to the board that knows more than everyone here put together. The common denominator with this type is that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

4CTophand - you may be right. If it works for you, then I'm happy for you and hope your perfection continues. If so, you are to be admired for it. Share your knowledge that everyone else may have as good of success as you do.

However - you should hone your people skills in order that they may be as good as your cattle skills.

 

[nap]

cows arent eating much hay too much good graze out there in the rye field--- we are phasing out hay altogether in the next few years as we no longer need it or want it
T

Basically I do the same. I do recommend that you keep hay on hand. Last year I fed very little hay. That left the barn pretty well full. This year I have no stockpiled forage and the rye and oats are hurting because of drought. I sure am glad I have hay to feed.

Good for you guys! I have the same goal of hay feeding independence. I think there are ways of altering our management skills such as pasture improvement and rotational grazing schemes that will make this goal possible. I can see a future in which I can overcome my dependence on hay. In my opinion, which I have stated several times on this board, a reliance on hay production or purchasing it severely cuts into an already thin profit margin. I realize that complete hay independence is not possible for our friends in the North but I think it is an attainable goal for many of us living in warmer zones.

 

[1982vett]

AND now finally last---- we dont concentrate our efforts on HAY ---we let our hay meadows get rank on purpose so we make our money back on our forages we put up in Hay--- we understand by doing this that we have a low protein hay, but TDN doesn't suffer significantly even with a crummy 5% grass hay. Instead, for about $3 per ton, we inject our bales with a combination of energy/minerals (which aren't cheap these days--when is the last time you bought a few tons of high Mg Mineral>?)/ and Protein booster. and after we inject our 5% CP/50% TDN hay we end up with a 10% CP/50% TDN hay bale for 1/3 the cost.
[/b]

T

Folks, he is still feeding hay, it is just gully plug hay injected with amonia and molassas or whatever.

And 2nd to last, but not least since we planted out Winter annuals in October we have been fortunate to have over 8 inches of rainfall-we have so much grazing and feed so little hay it is such a pleasure not to have to mess with the worst form of forage (nutritionally) on Earth.

Count youself lucky you have never, ever had a problem but I'll bet, one day, one will show up. All that needs to happen one year when you plant your winter crop is not to get your 8 inches of rain. But then, maybe you have the means to make rain.

-we have so much grazing and feed so little hay it is such a pleasure not to have to mess with the worst form of forage (nutritionally) on Earth.

Which are you refering to, your gully plugs or our hay?

 

[TexasBred]

vett....you have to remember this is the same guy that responds to your comment about drought by telling you to replace the lost hay production with winter pasture. Guess you could plant you some of those "air ferns" but don't know if we've even had enough humidity in the air down here for those things to survive. Wonder if cows would eat'em??

 

[bigbull338]

every1 has differant thoughts an ways of feeding cattle an thats good.but theres no right or wrong way to run a farm.

 

[1982vett]

vett....you have to remember this is the same guy that responds to your comment about drought by telling you to replace the lost hay production with winter pasture. Guess you could plant you some of those "air ferns" but don't know if we've even had enough humidity in the air down here for those things to survive. Wonder if cows would eat'em??

Yeah, I was going to mention in my last post that I planted oats in mid-September that is struggling to survive but took it out. What really looks sad are those that waited till October to plant.

Don't know if the "air ferns" could handle our light breezes of late ;-) but the cows would probably eat em if you sweetened em up a bit. To bad I've been knocking out the prickly pear and mesquite the past few years. Thistles aren't even coming up, unless that is what the cows are out licking the ground for.

 

[CowpokeJ]

We can hope for a lot better calf prices too, but I don;t think either one is going to happen. Probably a btter chance with your choice of weather then the calf prices though[/quote]
I ain't worried about the calf prices I already figured it out all I need to make money is $.50 pr lb from a 6 wt to make it and then I will be rolling in the dough might even be able to quit doing all the custom work I do also if I can get this for them[/quote]

I guess if you could send me your calculator that would really be great...I can't get mine to work that well.