Feeding Bulls

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MissouriExile":23aatmb6 said:
MikeC":23aatmb6 said:
He had 20 black Angus in one pasture and 30 red Angus in another and fed them the same amount of hay each day. He said the BA did wean heavier calves but it only took 4 Red Angus to make up the difference and he had 10.

Need further explanation?

Yes, I would like to ask a totally ignorant question. Everything I have read says that Red & Black Angus are identical except for the color gene and a smaller gene pool for red angus.
That being the case, any variance in weaning weight must be meaningless in such a small sample. Any variances must be explained by differences in individual cattle.

Not So?

Jon Davis

Might be that Black Angus is not as contaminated as the Red Angus. Black Angus might have to much outside breeds hiding in the gene pool. Were Red Angus could be more pure in its breed make up. That would explain why Red is known for being more moderate framed, much like the Black use to be years ago.
 
aplusmnt":1ov42np9 said:
He said that the same enzyme in a cows stomach used to digest soy hulls is the same one used to digest hay and grass. And that there was a second enzyme that was present to help in digesting starches like Corn.

That many bulls are sold that get fat on Corn but then when they go to the pastures they fall apart. But does not have that problem with those that get fat on soy hulls.

Anyone else heard anything like this program?

It is indeed true that a different enzyme/microbe is needed for digesting corn. There are different microbes that allow digestion of different things - that is why you should never, ever suddenly change feeds. In the case of corn, if you suddenly add more than 1-2% of the animals body weight in corn to their diet, or if you've built them up to a large amount of corn - say around 15, 20 lbs of corn/day (depending on the body weight of the individual animal), and then suddenly take it away, you're looking at a good case of acidosis. It takes a while for the microbes to build up, and it takes a while for them to die when that particular feed is no longer being fed.
 
There is not enough land mass in the USA to fatten all of our fats on grass. Therefore, grass fattened beef will be just a niche market and not for everyone.

Couldn't agree with you more on this one Mike.
 
Acidosis occurs from rapid fermentation of feedstuffs, primarily starch, which generally comes from grains. pH drops and the acidic condition kills the rumen bacteria. Rapidly increasing the amount of grain, or increasing the fineness of the grind, is usually the cause. Acidosis doesn't happen by reducing grain or increasing the amount of roughage.
 
rk said:
Acidosis doesn't happen by reducing grain...../quote]

Where did I state that reducing grain causes acidosis? I stated that suddenly stopping that grain causes acidosis.
 
aplusmnt":2bh68xzt said:
MikeC":2bh68xzt said:
If so, we need to walk a fine line in genetics that will include mama cows that can graze and thrive on grass and have calves that will fatten efficiently on grain. JMHO

Good point! But doesn't an animal that usually finishes easy on grass also finish easy on Corn? But doesn't always go the other way, some animals will finish out on Corn but have a hard time doing the same on grass.
Someone correct me if my assumption is wrong, but do most breeds that are known for being good grass finishers, not also do good in the feed lots?

Say like Murray Grey?

Yes you are basically correct with your statement that I highlited.

However there is a big difference between finishing an animal and growing one out in a feedlot. The typical easy doing grass genetics will finish very quickly in a feedlot on grain, too quickly for the packers who wants a heavier carcass. The taller leaner types will grow more and put less finish on in the same time period, but luckily we have many breeds to choose from, no one breed needs to do it all.

Charolais, like MIkeC raises have been for many years and will probably continue for many years to be the king of the feedlot and one of the better if not best choices for theproduction of terminal calves for the feedlot. Use Charolais as such. They will typically be less efficient if forage conditions are poor.

Most british breeds (whos maternal and easy doing qualities made them popular in the first place) chased that same growth and frame of the charolais, resulting in single trait selection which resulted in the loss of many of the qualities that made them popular in the first place.
 
rk":3mueu7uc said:
Stopping grain won't cause it either.

Oh yes, it will! Just as it takes time for the microbes to build up, it also takes time for them to die. It's called 'sub-acute acidosis'. If you don't believe me, google it. I know for a fact that it does happen, because we've had to deal with it. ;-)
 
Thanks, Dun. I think it shows acidosis is from rapid increases or plain just too much grain, not decreasing or removing the grain
 

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