Feeding alfalfa instead of grain

[lucky7chief]

I am a cow/calf producer and am concerned with the rising costs of feed and fertilizer. I usually hand feed my cows a few pounds of feed mix daily from calving until 3 months. They also have access to good fescue pasture. I've read a lot of discussion about substituting grain for hay during droughts, but I'm considering the opposite. I have some fields on which I could raise alfalfa. I would hand feed it daily at about 5 pounds per head. Does this sound reasonable? Is there something else I should consider? I think the protein should be sufficient, but what about energy? I wouldn't mind raising more of my own feed. I'm still trying to figure out the costs of each.

 

[dyates]

Where are you located? Will you be able to get it harvested in good shape with regard to weather? Have you seen the price of alfalfa seed? Alfalfa won't be as cheap to produce as you might think, especially if you are inexperienced with it. Assuming you are successful at producing and harvesting the alfalfa, then yes, you could use it for your protein source. You would probably be better off selling it, if its good, and buying cheaper feed. We baled enough for my in-laws to feed their sheep. He sold probably 20,000 dollars worth of lambs, but the hay we baled was probably 15,000 of that. I just shake my head. Guess its all in what you want to do. Sheep make chickens look smart and I just don't like em.

 

[lucky7chief]

Thanks dyates. I'm located in central Missouri. I've had lot of experience with alfalfa. We used to buy/raise about 5000 bales yearly when we were in the dairy business. I'm exploring options to replace purchased feed if prices continue to rise. I think the price of hay may be short term until everyone gets their rainfall totals up. The price of corn may not come down as quickly with ethanol mandates. Right now I want to make sure it makes sense nutrition-wise. I might consider red clover as well. It's usually a lot easier to manage.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I think the protein should be sufficient, but what about energy? I'm still trying to figure out the costs of each.

It depends on what you need to balance out your pasture at that time of year. We are short on energy and fiber on spring cool season grass - - so grassy hay or cob corn are usually more cost effective spring stocker supplements than dairy quality alfalfa.

I would not supplement beef cows. Graze the second cutting alfalfa if you do not have enough feed, or else sell the hard keeping cows.

Grazing corn and grazing alfalfa used to cost us about the same at $0.025 per lb. of DM, but grazing corn was 18% cheaper per mega calorie. With the increased cost of inputs alfalfa should now have an cost advantage per lb. of DM and per mega colorie.

The real questions are why would you supplement beef cows, what time of year do you want to do it, and how does it fit with the rest of your forage chain???

 

[GMN]

I am a cow/calf producer and am concerned with the rising costs of feed and fertilizer. I usually hand feed my cows a few pounds of feed mix daily from calving until 3 months. They also have access to good fescue pasture. I've read a lot of discussion about substituting grain for hay during droughts, but I'm considering the opposite. I have some fields on which I could raise alfalfa. I would hand feed it daily at about 5 pounds per head. Does this sound reasonable? Is there something else I should consider? I think the protein should be sufficient, but what about energy? I wouldn't mind raising more of my own feed. I'm still trying to figure out the costs of each.

This is interesting. Do you think the cost of planting the alfalfa, spraying it, and fertilizing it, will be cheaper than feeding grain in the long run? How much does it cost to plant alfalfa these days?

GMN

 

[hayray]

That is what I am doing. I have fall calvers out on winter pasture right now and am feeding them 2 lbs. per day of a 12% protein corn and SBM mix and then about 5 pound per day of a 16% protien trefoil hay with a pasture and some grass rounds averaging around 5-6% crude protein. I figure if I was feeding a lot more legume then I would not be feeding the grain at all but this is a good balance for me based on what is available and prices. Of course I was grazing turnips from mid October right up until a week ago and that had all the TDN and surplus protein any cow herd would need, so I kept them pretty cheap up until now. I am spending around $.55/day/cow.

 

[highvoltagecattleco]

You can figure that it will cost you $100 to $130 a ton to put up first year alfalfa. Depending on fuel costs and equipment your input costs will be lower or higher in following years. In Missouri I think your weather might be your biggest obstacle. Alfalfa loves heat and humidity. Unfortunately you have a lot of summer rain and alfalfa doesn't dry real well in humidity. I think you will be way ahead with alfalfa. Rather than pay grain prices. That are not going to go down anytime soon. I would talk to local producers and find out what equipment they use to dry the hay faster to get it in the bale.

 

[MoGal]

If you can raise alfalfa why can't you raise corn? Its going to cost you to fertilize the alfalfa to get optimum yield.

In central MO, perhaps you're around Union/St. Clair area? Also, with alfalfa bringing the high prices sell it and buy the corn from a farmer somewhere. Around here a good alfalfa square bale, 70 lbs is bringing $6.00 and as much of it that's selling and going elsewhere that must be a cheap price.

Also, ADM alliance has a High Fat Range Supplement which is 20% protein, and 18% fat. We buy it for $194 ton (distillers grain is $205 ton) and we mix it ourselves, grind 2 tons corn, 1 ton HFRS and 4 bales alfalfa hay. Now, you can feed this HFRS by itself 2 lbs per head per day with a maximum of 4 lbs per day. I'm not sure if this would pencil out cheaper for you as I don't know how many you have and how much it costs for what you are feeding now.

I'm afraid we're all in for a rude awakening (and it isn't going to be pleasant) if not in 2008, then definitely by 2009.

 

[TexasBred]

Also, ADM alliance has a High Fat Range Supplement which is 20% protein, and 18% fat. We buy it for $194 ton (distillers grain is $205 ton)

18% fat???? Wow !!!!! My question is how do they get the fat level that high and sell it at that cheap price???? I want some of that. :banana:

 

[MoGal]

I've been trying to get you a direct link to it but my puter keeps giving me "gateway timed out" .

Their website is http://www.admani.com Its pure vegetable fat. I went to the local county fair and the people selling it in this area had a booth there and I have one of the brochures around here somewhere. Hope that helps.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Also, ADM alliance has a High Fat Range Supplement which is 20% protein, and 18% fat. We buy it for $194 ton (distillers grain is $205 ton) and we mix it ourselves, grind 2 tons corn, 1 ton HFRS and 4 bales alfalfa hay.

Do you buy inputs in bulk quantities?
What equipment do you mix and feed with?

 

[TexasBred]

Cut and pasted these products from the ADM website:

H.F.R.S 20/8-15, (33 1/3 lb block)

H.F.R.S 20/8-15 (250 lb tub)

Is one of these what you're using? Still could not find anything on the site with 18% fat. Would take a huge amount of veg. oil to get fat content up to 18%. Using stabilized rice bran would give it a pretty good fat level but all the other ingredients would cut it back down and they would still have to use quite a bit of fat. More info. please. Thanks in Advance.

 

[MoGal]

Stocker Steve ---- everything over at the hubby's "homeplace" is John Deere equipment and they have all the equipment they need to farm with as they've had some of it for years. This grinder is old enough that you can't buy parts for it anymore (so it has a few homemade parts on it now) but it holds up to about 4 ton. Since we had our own corn this year (we'll have to buy it this fall from one of the brothers because our corn field is now a wheat field). We grind the whole corn and since the HFRS is already a ground supplement we shovel that in as well and then add the alfalfa a couple flakes at a time. The horses are about as crazy over this feed as the cows are.

I've found that buying by the ton is cheaper and the price of the HFRS includes delivery, but I have to get 2 ton at a time.

Texas Bred: That is similar, but, the blocks and tubs are not as high in fat (don't ask me why because I don't know)
I"m guessing the higher fat wouldn't be feasible to feed as a free choice.....
Okay I found my brochure and they should have the tables and charts of their research on the website. They have an 8%, 15% and 20%. They recommend feeding 50-60 days before calving and 30 days post-calving.

Looking at the backside they have the blocks, tubs and HFRS 30/20 meal, 20/20 meal , 18/8 cubes, and HFRS Mintrate XL 18/16 tub ................ so I guess mine is 20/20 meal and not the 20/18 as I first stated, sorry.

This is a vegetable based fat. I started checking labels at the feedstores and looking for fat content and seems like many are 4 to 8% fat. I wasn't happy this fall when we had the vet preg check and had 15% open .......... (it wasn't until Dun posted a thread later saying because of the drought, many had open or early bred cows and I also talked to the dairy farmer across the road and he said he'd had the same problem). They mostly recommend this for heifers, 1st and 2nd calvers but I figure "old" cows could probably use the extra fat as well and I'm not grinding different batches for different pastures.

 

[GMN]

They mostly recommend this for heifers, 1st and 2nd calvers but I figure "old" cows could probably use the extra fat as well and I'm not grinding different batches for different pastures.quote:

Someone toldme that if a cow is too fat she won't breed back as well as a one which is leaner, maybe this is why some of your cows did not breed back.

GMN

 

[dun]

Someone toldme that if a cow is too fat she won't breed back as well as a one which is leaner, maybe this is why some of your cows did not breed back.

GMN

How fat is too fat to breed back is probably cow dependent just llike how thin is too thin. We had one cow that would go from a 6 plus to barely a 4 by breeding season and alwasy bred back first service. We have others, mostly heifers that will be in a 7 come breeding season and they settle no problems. Last year was an anomoly I hope since the settling problem was so wide spread. Around here it ranged from dairys using natural service and AI to natural service beef herds to 100% AI beef herds. The extreme heat during that one 10 day period seemed to just really screw up both cows and bulls.

 

[novatech]

Someone toldme that if a cow is too fat she won't breed back as well as a one which is leaner, maybe this is why some of your cows did not breed back.

GMN

How fat is too fat to breed back is probably cow dependent just llike how thin is too thin. We had one cow that would go from a 6 plus to barely a 4 by breeding season and alwasy bred back first service. We have others, mostly heifers that will be in a 7 come breeding season and they settle no problems. Last year was an anomoly I hope since the settling problem was so wide spread. Around here it ranged from dairys using natural service and AI to natural service beef herds to 100% AI beef herds. The extreme heat during that one 10 day period seemed to just really screw up both cows and bulls.

An awful lot of fat show heifers are bred every year with no problem. My brahman breed back when there is not a rib showing, and that is really fat for a brahman.

 

[MoGal]

GMN - that would be a good thought if we fed grain year round but we don't....... I didn't get the HFRS until mid October and we're using it this year.... so far I'm pleased with it. We only feed grain in the wintertime. We have quite a few that give plenty of milk and there's a tradeoff with that if you don't have lots of pasture and it was really dry here in July, August and thru mid September. In fact in Sept. it was so humidly hot several of the cows were panting with their tongues hanging out and I was quite alarmed because I have never seen that before. We had cows that should have been in 2nd period on 10/22 when preg checked and instead were in first period so we're now going to be calving in April/May

 

[GMN]

GMN - that would be a good thought if we fed grain year round but we don't....... I didn't get the HFRS until mid October and we're using it this year.... so far I'm pleased with it. We only feed grain in the wintertime. We have quite a few that give plenty of milk and there's a tradeoff with that if you don't have lots of pasture and it was really dry here in July, August and thru mid September. In fact in Sept. it was so humidly hot several of the cows were panting with their tongues hanging out and I was quite alarmed because I have never seen that before. We had cows that should have been in 2nd period on 10/22 when preg checked and instead were in first period so we're now going to be calving in April/May

Yes I know my Vet told me the same thing, that these past 2 years, with the drought have really messed up the breeding back cycles on some animals. The heat is hard on any animal.

Gail

 

[novatech]

The heat is hard on any animal.

:???: Not mine. The opposite happens. When it drops below 40 they stop cycling. :frowns:

 

[Stocker Steve]

40 below zero?