Feeder futures

[HatCreekCattleco]

Doesn't really matter if you run 1 cow or 100 a tight calving window is something to work towards. Cull the late bred and opens, keep early calves, retain heifers from early calvers. If possible you can easily sync them for the bull.

Like just about anything cattle related it doesn't happen overnight. But in time you can tighten things up and sell decent sized lots of calves.

I've been working towards this for 3 or 4 years. I've about come to the conclusion it's too expensive. Every year good cows fall out. And many of the top cows are working their way from Feb to April. I do feed my cows in the winter and they have plenty of grass in the summer they are fat all year so it ain't that. It seems to me nearly 10% comes up calving behind my windows or open. That's too much, I believe I'll join the rest of the world and take a live calf whenever I can get it rather than constantly trading cattle. Jmo

 

[HatCreekCattleco]

I'll add a little context to that, my cattle have land payments to make, and I'm a family man so any extra money always has a place to go. I have a couple other businesses that take most of my time and attention, and there is no extra money to throw at replacement cattle. So my only option is to keep replacements. It's very expensive to have two years into a heifer before you see any return (the only way I can get heifers to breed back in time is to pull the first calf off early so really the 3rd year is a wash too). I know it's easy to read this and say my cattle are sorry if they won't calve every 10 months, and maybe they are. But it is what it is, I won't sell the whole herd when it took me 20 years of busting my tail to get what I believe are good cattle, just to start over again. If I sell my herd I'll sell land and all.

 

[gcreekrch]

I'll add a little context to that, my cattle have land payments to make, and I'm a family man so any extra money always has a place to go. I have a couple other businesses that take most of my time and attention, and there is no extra money to throw at replacement cattle. So my only option is to keep replacements. It's very expensive to have two years into a heifer before you see any return (the only way I can get heifers to breed back in time is to pull the first calf off early so really the 3rd year is a wash too). I know it's easy to read this and say my cattle are sorry if they won't calve every 10 months, and maybe they are. But it is what it is, I won't sell the whole herd when it took me 20 years of busting my tail to get what I believe are good cattle, just to start over again. If I sell my herd I'll sell land and all.

Welcome to ranching……… Do you keep employees that don't fulfill your expectations or just continue paying them?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

If your comfortable feeding open and late bred cows then it's no big deal.

I've been tightening the calving window for 10-12? Years now. First few years I culled a lot of decent cows. But I'm at the point that now most of the opens and lates are old cows that really need to go anyways. Tight calving window means more time between calving and breeding which is another plus.

At least here on the frozen tundra feeding is a large expense for 6-7 months of the year. So feeding an open cow so she can "catch up" isn't cheap. So take her cull value and add in feed for 7 months and usually your around replacment cost.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

So if I lock the bull up in the paddock next to the cows from July to December with one steer to keep him company, a tight, 5 strand barbed wire fence will keep him away from them? I have been led to believe that if they smell a heifer or cow in heat that they'll often push through the fence.

Conversely, if they run with a herd year round that they feel is their own, they don't usually head to the neighbor's paddock.

Is this incorrect?

Nonsense

 

[HatCreekCattleco]

Welcome to ranching………

Thanks for the warm welcome . And i dont think i was clear. I'm not talking about feeding them all winter to let them catch up next year. I'm talking about leaving the bulls in all year and taking a calf whenever it comes, like I used to do, my daddy and his daddy done. I'm saying regardless of what new ideas one may see on the internet, sometimes, just sometimes, the old timers may have known what they were doing. I try to look at it as a business, and I try to be open to new ideas, but I have yet to find an approach that makes cow calf a decent business model. There is no silver bullet that works for every operation.

 

[HatCreekCattleco]

If your comfortable feeding open and late bred cows then it's no big deal.

I've been tightening the calving window for 10-12? Years now. First few years I culled a lot of decent cows. But I'm at the point that now most of the opens and lates are old cows that really need to go anyways. Tight calving window means more time between calving and breeding which is another plus.

At least here on the frozen tundra feeding is a large expense for 6-7 months of the year. So feeding an open cow so she can "catch up" isn't cheap. So take her cull value and add in feed for 7 months and usually your around replacment cost.

I'm not comfortable with it, but is it a better option than selling cows that should be in their prime? I bought a set of 7 super baldies as bred heifers they were 2019 models. As of now I have two of them left, granted I sold some of them for $800 more than I originally paid due to the good cow market a few weeks ago. But those cows should be in their prime of raising big calves now. I think if the kill value wasn't so high I would have been wishing I hadn't have pulled the bulls.

 

[rocfarm]

Nonsense

Well, I have been told different by a few people. But, interesting to know there are strong opinions on this.

 

[rocfarm]

I've been working towards this for 3 or 4 years. I've about come to the conclusion it's too expensive. Every year good cows fall out. And many of the top cows are working their way from Feb to April. I do feed my cows in the winter and they have plenty of grass in the summer they are fat all year so it ain't that. It seems to me nearly 10% comes up calving behind my windows or open. That's too much, I believe I'll join the rest of the world and take a live calf whenever I can get it rather than constantly trading cattle. Jmo

Actually, I'm pretty sure @chevytaHOE5674 is giving very researched advice on this one, and agree. I also sympathize. Same type of issues with me. I have a wife with a very stressful career, a job myself, and kids who require attention. And I'm not at all sure it's so healthy for the rest of the family and our finances for me to love cattle so much.

But I will say this—it does seem like over 90% of the time the people on this forum do come to the right answer/set of answers with cattle issues. Just hard to parse the information sometimes.

 

[rocfarm]

I'm not comfortable with it, but is it a better option than selling cows that should be in their prime? I bought a set of 7 super baldies as bred heifers they were 2019 models. As of now I have two of them left, granted I sold some of them for $800 more than I originally paid due to the good cow market a few weeks ago. But those cows should be in their prime of raising big calves now. I think if the kill value wasn't so high I would have been wishing I hadn't have pulled the bulls.

Interesting comments. I'm not sure that using current prices for measuring profitability is a long-term winner though. The last 3 to 4 years in the cattle market have been crazy. Hope all the people saying prices will stay high for at least two more years are right. Plan to use the good times to build a bit of financial breathing room or even upgrade if I can start trading cattle for other cattle instead of paying out of pocket.

 

[rocfarm]

That is basically what I did when I ran a cow/calf operation. Except I shipped opens at weaning time. Cows were bred for February/March calves. Any cow have a calf after April 1 got sold as a pair. A couple weeks after the first calf was born Mr Bull went into a pen where he stayed for about 2 months.

This is what I would like to do for my cows. Seems like a really good plan, and not the first time I heard it suggested.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Maybe Mr. Bull should have a physical

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I'm talking about leaving the bulls in all year and taking a calf whenever it comes, like I used to do, my daddy and his daddy done...

Maybe that works in your climate. UP here a Dec-Feb calf you better be out there checking (unless you have them in a barn) and being ready to intervene multiple times per hour. January at -20 with 6" of snow falling per hour that calf doesn't stand much chance.

Or June and July the flies here will eat the calf before even the best mama has a chance to get it dried off.

 

[chaded]

I've been working towards this for 3 or 4 years. I've about come to the conclusion it's too expensive. Every year good cows fall out. And many of the top cows are working their way from Feb to April. I do feed my cows in the winter and they have plenty of grass in the summer they are fat all year so it ain't that. It seems to me nearly 10% comes up calving behind my windows or open. That's too much, I believe I'll join the rest of the world and take a live calf whenever I can get it rather than constantly trading cattle. Jmo

"Every year good cows fall out." If they fall out they aren't good.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

"Every year good cows fall out." If they fall out they aren't good.

Bingo.

 

[gcreekrch]

Thanks for the warm welcome . And i dont think i was clear. I'm not talking about feeding them all winter to let them catch up next year. I'm talking about leaving the bulls in all year and taking a calf whenever it comes, like I used to do, my daddy and his daddy done. I'm saying regardless of what new ideas one may see on the internet, sometimes, just sometimes, the old timers may have known what they were doing. I try to look at it as a business, and I try to be open to new ideas, but I have yet to find an approach that makes cow calf a decent business model. There is no silver bullet that works for every operation.

Ok. Our heifers have bulls with them 30 days, Last year there were 22% open. Our cow herd will average 8 to 10% open and late. The rest calve in mostly a 40 day window with a few going over to 55 days. Employees that don't ride for the brand aren't kept. Scale of size has no bearing on it.

 

[HatCreekCattleco]

Ok. Our heifers have bulls with them 30 days, Last year there were 22% open. Our cow herd will average 8 to 10% open and late. The rest calve in mostly a 40 day window with a few going over to 55 days. Employees that don't ride for the brand aren't kept. Scale of size has no bearing on it.

Thank you very much for sharing those numbers

 

[Lucky]

I'm saying regardless of what new ideas one may see on the internet, sometimes, just sometimes, the old timers may have known what they were doing.

I agree with this. Raising cattle isn't rocket science. Too many people get caught up with the latest internet fad and end up with a bunch of fence row ornaments or get set back 15 yrs by going the regenerative route. Another thing I see is people buying cheap cattle or really expensive cattle, both of these are money losers. All the spreadsheets and seminars in the world won't make you as much money as a 90 day calving season and a big chief tablet.

 

[Lucky]

On the defined calving side of things I feel @HatCreekCattleco pain. We have a 90 day calving season here and have for probably last 8 -10 yrs. Things have gotten better over time but we still have a 10-15% open rate. If I have an open cow that has been a good producer over the yrs and isn't a trouble maker she gets a pass. Nice looking open 3 yr olds get a pass too. I do my best to only give cows 1 pass. For several yrs cows didn't get a pass and the replacements we bought weren't better cows than we sold so we started giving cows a pass. I've got mixed emotions on doing this.

The thing I have noticed is that every calf gets vacinated and we have overall better herd health and very little if any sickness in calves. We have the cowboy crew out twice a year instead of 3-4 times. Bulls are the most expensive and accident prone animals we have so having them in a good clean pasture 9 months a year helps with injuries. The biggest plus though is having a nice uniform well vaccinated calf crop that brings top dollar every year. We still have the odd dink or two but I think you could spend a lifetime trying to cure that problem.

For us having everything being a one and done has been a huge time saver and money maker. It's also really nice getting one big check and being able to budget out projects for the year instead of selling 4-8 at a time and nickle and diming everything.

 

[Lucky]

And I'm not at all sure it's so healthy for the rest of the family and our finances for me to love cattle so much.

Cattle are supposed to make money not cost money. Start a cattle account if you haven't already. Get an operating loan for for farm projects. If the cattle can't pay it back they aren't worth having or the projects don't pay. If the cattle are a hobby like golfing is don't worry about any of this stuff and just have fun with it.