Feed Question

[novaman]

i sure hope you cows dont have Johnes disease,

JOHNES DISEASE !!!!!!!! JOHNES DISEASE !!!!!
I sure don't want to make everyone on here mad but evertime there is a post of a cow that is poor seems like someone starts this idea that its got Johnes well not so!!!! sometimes some cows just winter harder than others ,some poor cows you buy at the sale barn are there because they ran out of feed and they got poor cause they aint had any thing to eat I have made some good money on them poor cows that just needed wormed and fed I know of three men that have made LOTS AND LOT OF MONEY on them cows that are poor, can you get a bad one sure you cat but you can get a bad one that is fat also. remember every cow that comes through a sale barn is not bad and every cow that is poor does'nt have Johnes!!
O well just my point of view when I read some of these post I guess it rubbed me wrong,

I was the one to first bring up disease as a possible problem. I didn't do it for kicks. The guy has hay, mineral, protein tubs, etc out for his cows and they look poor. I'll never see his cattle so all I can do is speculate. If you've got a problem, too bad. Being ignorant may work for you but most people prefer to be informed.

 

[alftn]

Hey you North Border You Leave TENNESSEE out of you problems...ALFTN

 

[BRYANT]

Some folks don't need to put their loacation in, ya just know they are from Tenn.

if you were thinking I'm from Tenn. well you missed it by a long, long ways cause I'm more hillbilly than that :cboy:

If you've got a problem, too bad. Being ignorant may work for you but most people prefer to be informed.

I could talk about being ignorant but I wont just read up on johnes and you will find most everything you read will talk about the cattle having DIARRHEA now I went back and looked he did not say any of his cows had that. It is just part of raising cows some winter better than others ,some are easyer to keep in shape than others.I think I read where he said he had out 2 protein tubs if that is all that is not enough for 60 cows . I wish him the best and I will bet ya when the grass gets green and the pastures are in there prime we wont be talking about this problem BUT if they are still poor I would be having a Vet out to see what is wrong then johnes could be something to look at just don't fall for it to fast

 

[greatgerts]

If the cows do have Johnes, spring may be too late to have the vet out.
When we used to have one that was thin before really getting into the registered game, we would just take the cow to town. About 11 years ago, I had a 2 year old that was thinner than the rest of the herd and we had gave her something (I can't remember...been 11 years) and it wasn't working. We were going to just end her suffering, but she ended up getting up when we went to do the deed. So, we got the vet out to see what was going on, did blood tests, and found out she had Johnes.
I think the bull we had her exposed to had it as well, because his symptoms were the same, but we put him down after getting him up and feeding him for a couple of months. We never tested him because we just weren't sure, and took it as a loss at the time.
So, what I am trying to get at, is in the scheme of things, testing the cow is not that bad. If you want to know WHY something is wrong with your cattle, GET THE VET OUT! That is what they are there for.

 

[BRYANT]

If you want to know WHY something is wrong with your cattle, GET THE VET OUT! That is what they are there for.

Good advice
did you notice did that cow have a problem with diarrhea most things I have read talks like that will be one of the main symptons. Don't know that I have ever had a cow with johnes I may have cause I have bought some pretty poor cows and fed the back this time of the year is a good time to buy thin turnout cows but when every thing is green and lots of grass and you buy a thin one you may have bought a sick one . I would be lots more concern about his thin cows if it was not this time of the year

 

[TexasBred]

A cow can be infected with Johnes and not show outward symptoms for as much as 2 years.....knowing this and knowing also that Johnes is highly contagious I would be suspicious of any ruminant that became emaciated and remained that way regardless of any efforts you might make to help her gain weight, overcome scours, etc. I certainly wouldn't want to wake up one day and find out my entire herd was infected.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Some folks don't need to put their loacation in, ya just know they are from Tenn.

if you were thinking I'm from Tenn. well you missed it by a long, long ways cause I'm more hillbilly than that :cboy:

:lol: And thicker skin than Alien Life Form! :clap: :clap:

 

[greatgerts]

If you want to know WHY something is wrong with your cattle, GET THE VET OUT! That is what they are there for.

Good advice
did you notice did that cow have a problem with diarrhea most things I have read talks like that will be one of the main symptons. Don't know that I have ever had a cow with johnes I may have cause I have bought some pretty poor cows and fed the back this time of the year is a good time to buy thin turnout cows but when every thing is green and lots of grass and you buy a thin one you may have bought a sick one . I would be lots more concern about his thin cows if it was not this time of the year

I really can't remember if she had or not. I want to think she did at some point, but not towards the end, but not 100% sure. We really didn't know anything about the disease until after the fact.

*Guess I could add for kicks...Less than a week after we got the results back stating she had Johnes, the SGBI magazine had a huge article about it. (We had called the assoc. to discuss the disease and get their input). It was really weird how that article was timed right when we were going through it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Johnes is a very nasty disease. It can stay hidden for a long time. You can't even test your cattle until they are 2 years old. The diarhea generally shows up when the animal is STRESSED. Like a 2-year old calving. But, great management can mask the condition. If the 2-yr old is in great condition when she calves, stays on great nutrition, she may not show any sign.
I also get extremely suspect of Johnes if an animal can't hold her condition compared to her contemporaries if all else is equal.
Johnes is a lot more prevalent than people think. For years, the extension specialists would recommend for all beef producers to go to their neighbor dairyman and get some colostrum to have on hand for any newborn problems. That was absolutely the worse thing we (beef producers) could have done. Johnes is extremely prevalent in the dairy industry and Johnes can be spread thru colostrum. Thus, we now have Johnes in the beef herds.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Sorry, but I rarely have ours tested (and hubby tests his customers all the time - like the shoemaker with kids barefoot! :banana: ).
LOOK AT THE MANURE. It'll tell you what protein/quality of hay you're dealing with. We all need to get a better "EYE of the Master" type attitude. You need to be able to "read" your cattle's condition & the quality of what you are feeding.
"Eye of the Master" - we don't hear that much any more do we?

Ok, I see your point and I thank you.

Hi. What are you " looking " for in the manure? I noticed some of my buddy cows looked like oatmeal the other day......not runny but not full of roughage to say.

Sorry I didn't get back to your question.
You can tell by the consistency of the manure what the PROTEIN level is in what they are eating.
The looser the manure - the higher the protein. If they are dropping turds like a horse, they are on an EXTREMELY low protein feed (unless they are being deprived of any water!).
If the manure is so loose, you don't want to be behind them when they caugh - well, their protein is way up there - like flush spring grass - which is a combination of high protein & excess water.
You should be looking for an in-between manure. When it hits the ground, it doesn't PILE up, it spreads out into a nice soft paddy.
The "oatmean" look, is a reflection of WHAT they are eating. Like ground corn or corn meal. The color will change with what they are eating also. Learn to "read" your cattle's manure. It will tell you a lot.
Now, all these examples are for HEALTHY cattle.

 

[TexasBred]

Good answer Jeanne...you can learn a world of info about your cattle walking thru the pastures looking at knocking the tops off cow piles. :clap: Cows not getting enough roughage in their diet can also have thin manure regardless of protein levels.