federal grazing

[Anonymous]

i have spent the last few weeks at home , so ive had some time on the internet , found this site and have been reading it latly . lots of good info
lots of good people.
The reason im at home and not out on my ranch is the federal gov has killed my life style along with hundreds if not thoudands more like me in the last ten years , as i read the posts on this websight and relize alot are from the mid west and east and south , i wounder does our industry ( you folks ) have any knowledge as too whats going on in our western range lands and do you think it will effect our country in the future im at the end of my rope as far as what its going to take to get noticed out here and am curious if it ever crosses youre alls minds .

thanks

 

[Larry Sansom]

i have spent the last few weeks at home , so ive had some time on the internet , found this site and have been reading it latly . lots of good info
lots of good people.
The reason im at home and not out on my ranch is the federal gov has killed my life style along with hundreds if not thoudands more like me in the last ten years , as i read the posts on this websight and relize alot are from the mid west and east and south , i wounder does our industry ( you folks ) have any knowledge as too whats going on in our western range lands and do you think it will effect our country in the future im at the end of my rope as far as what its going to take to get noticed out here and am curious if it ever crosses youre alls minds .

thanks

In KY, we have to buy, pay taxes, and 100 % ownership of all the land our cattle live on. Never had the luxury of using Federal lands - even with a cheap rent/cow. I realize the different climate - yes Ive been through your area and have ppurchased cattle out there. But those of us in areas not accessible to federal range land have learned to survive - and we produce as many calves as those out west do. Just look at the cow calf numbers by state. When you are at the end of your rope - tie a knot and hang on or change ropes.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Sorry to hear about your problem with Federal Land. Guess your "Free Ride" for grazing is over. Time to re-group and buy or (worse case "Rent") land from someone if you plan to stay in livestock business.

:cboy:

 

[Anonymous]

Easy guys, it is probably the only way he has ever known.
He now needs to look at his situation and decide if he wants to be a ranch owner, or find a job in town, or work on someone elses ranch.
Hard spot to be in and I know everyone of you have been in a hard spot at some time or another.
Better to give kindness cause tomorrow it may be our turn.

 

[Big Alan]

It's a little hard to be sympathetic when you pay $1000/acre for pasture land and your property taxes are as much as they pay for BLM land.

 

[dun]

It's a little hard to be sympathetic when you pay $1000/acre for pasture land and your property taxes are as much as they pay for BLM land.

I think you folks need to look at the realities of grazing federal land. It sure is no free ride and the cost of cattle manag,ent when you need several hundred acres per cow makes it a whole different ball game from what you're accustommed to.
Walk a mile in his shoes, or rather 20 miles, about the equivilent in many areas.

dun

 

[Anonymous]

holy sh-t you people on this board are dumber than you even sound
i cant believe these replies . most of you could raise a friggin goat out west nevermind a profitable cattle opoeration
probrebly ran this one off

 

[Dave]

It is kind of difficult to buy land in some states where up to 90% of the land is owned by the goverenment. If you are lucky you have grazing rights on government land. But with the way their policies have turned lately I am not so sure how lucky you are if your ranch is dependant on that grazing. When you look at all the costs associated with grazing on that cheap land it doesn't come out so cheap. I have one friend who runs 350 pairs on 30,000 acres of mountains that are semi forested. It literally takes two month of riding in the fall to work all of them out of the hills. Even then he never finds all of them. The ones that stay hidden are sure to die off during the winter. There is just one more cost of that "cheap range".

 

[Texan]

.....probably ran this one off

I expect you're right, cow puncher. And the guy started out being very complimentary of the board and the people on it.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear about your problem with Federal Land. Guess your "Free Ride" for grazing is over. Time to re-group and buy or (worse case "Rent") land from someone if you plan to stay in livestock business.
:cboy:

Free Ride :?: :?: :?: Shish, guys . If we add in all the things the rest of you don't think about I'd bet many of these guys that graze the federal lands pay as much or more than many of you do to rent pasture (no I don't and don't want to, grew up next to one and know what's involved).

Things like; spray weeds (back then it was hoe them) some weekend hiker packed the seeds in on their socks, several miles back. Yes I know we all have weeds, but if you own the ground you have some control of who is tramping through it.
Build fence then repair it a bazillion times after it has been cut because someone wants to get their- self, jeep, four wheeler, bicycle, whatever, on the other side.
Haul out tons and tons of garbage.
Loose cattle because someone had to drive at "mach one" through open range land and killed them, or they wanted the hindquarters and left the rest to rot.
Repair/replace water tanks because they are there for target practice. (right?)
And now wolves & grizzle bears that were reintroduced. There were grizzlies when I was growing up and they would eat calves.

Oh yeah and then they get to pay that "small" fee to the government for the privilege. That ain't what I call a free ride.

This reminds me of when Quail was Vice President and he went on TV and told everyone he wanted to fire half of the "cattle guards" in the forest service to save money. :shock:

 

[Anonymous]

wow didnt expect some of those , how would you consider a $2200 aum cost a free ride ? thats an 4.8 million dollar ranch to run 200 head
i cold buy 6 ranchs back east and run three times the cattle for 4.8 million
im sorry i thought most folks were more educated to the costs of ranching on federal lands . i didnt mean to cause any bad feelings
thanks

 

[C & C Land & Catt]

NWR, I would like to apoligize for the way you were treated. Thank you for the compliments and I hope we did not run you off. Good luck.

 

[Dave]

Last night while I was moving the cows I kept thinking about this post and some of the early replies. Over time I have observed a number of replies on this board that were ripe with what I would call "regional ignorance" but the "free ride", "cheap grazing" replies to this post take the cake. There is an out pouring of sympathy when one of the Canadian people posts something about their low prices. Yet when a western rancher tries to bring his issues to this board, which are being caused by government environmentalism, he gets told sorry no more "free ride". The lack of empathy is only exceeded by ignorance of the issues.

Dave

 

[Hawk]

Well, Nameless, I guess I just don't get it. If it is so prohibitively expensive to run your cattle on government land, then why do you want to continue to do it? If it is as expensive as you indicate, it would seem like the powers to be may have done you a favor by making you reconsider your options. I know it's nice to live in some of that beautiful western country, but if you can't make a living there what are you going to do? I think that if you took a poll, the majority of us would like to live somewhere else if earning a living wasn't a consideration. It sounds like you have a good grasp of your situation and the risks involved, I guess you just need to sit down with your family, weigh the alternatives and pick the one that seems the most promising. If you do decide to go into private land ranching, you may sleep better at night knowing that you have more control of your destiny.

 

[frenchie]

NWR

Sorry to hear of your plight. Federal land is never really cheap. The cost are just different .Its all the other things that add up. Total cost is the bottom line.

Hang in there..........Explore your options.......

 

[dun]

Well, Nameless, I guess I just don't get it. If it is so prohibitively expensive to run your cattle on government land, then why do you want to continue to do it? If it is as expensive as you indicate, it would seem like the powers to be may have done you a favor by making you reconsider your options. I know it's nice to live in some of that beautiful western country, but if you can't make a living there what are you going to do? I think that if you took a poll, the majority of us would like to live somewhere else if earning a living wasn't a consideration. It sounds like you have a good grasp of your situation and the risks involved, I guess you just need to sit down with your family, weigh the alternatives and pick the one that seems the most promising. If you do decide to go into private land ranching, you may sleep better at night knowing that you have more control of your destiny.

I just don't get this post. If you had raised cattle your entire life and were forced to quit, what kind of favor is it to have to get a factory/office/whatever else job? A living can be made on public land, but not the fortune that some people think because of that "free" grazing. In many parts of the west to "private land ranch" you can't make a living, or afford to buy land if any is available and still hope to make it. We've done them both ways and the main difference is in the managment, or what you manage. In the range type areas you're managing the cattle more, in private land your managing grass more. You probably put in just as much work and time for either, just a different form of labor.
This whole thread reminds me of the cows being kept in the barn post that people railed against. Of course in Europe where the cows were it's a completly different way of doing things.

dun

 

[Hawk]

I just don't get this post

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting that Nameless give up ranching for a town job (did I say that?), I was only suggesting that maybe he should re-evaluate his options as to how he is going to continue cattle ranching in the future if federal land was no longer available. One of the options that I would have to consider would be the possibility of moving my operation to an area where private land ownership is a feasable alternative.

wow didnt expect some of those , how would you consider a $2200 aum cost a free ride ? thats an 4.8 million dollar ranch to run 200 head
i cold buy 6 ranchs back east and run three times the cattle for 4.8 million
im sorry i thought most folks were more educated to the costs of ranching on federal lands . i didnt mean to cause any bad feelings
thanks

My other thought was that if it really takes this much capital to run cattle on federal land out west, there must be a better way. When you find yourself between a rock and a hard place it just may be time to make a change. Sometime it takes an outside force, such as the BLM, to supply the impetus to make us realize that. I have nothing but sympathy for anyone whose lifestyle has been so upset by the feds.

 

[Oldtimer]

wow didnt expect some of those , how would you consider a $2200 aum cost a free ride ? thats an 4.8 million dollar ranch to run 200 head
i cold buy 6 ranchs back east and run three times the cattle for 4.8 million
im sorry i thought most folks were more educated to the costs of ranching on federal lands . i didnt mean to cause any bad feelings
thanks

You are blowing smoke up somebody- $2200 aum would mean you were paying $13,200 per 6 month grazing period to run a cow-calf pair. Most government land in my area goes for about $14 an aum and private goes for $18-24.

Now if you are talking $2200 a month to run to get 200 aum's- I wouldn't complain- thats $11 a month to run a cow calf pair- if you can't make it on that- I agree with the others , you need a job in town.

 

[Anonymous]

youre right old timere i miss typed that , my aum cost is 14.73 but that is not counting what it casts to purchas the operation , i think this is were most people are mistaken , not only do you have to pay youre grazing fees you also have to buy the damn place , like i said i could buy six friggin ranches back east for what mine is worth and run 3 times the cows
im starting now to regret even asking my question , its clear the majority havent a clue about this subject maby thats the problem ,
most probreble think the wolves and grizzlies are a good idea too
of course i would rather deal with them than the hippie enviro wackos
thanks for your comments