Fat Slick Cattle

[Chuckie]

Inyati,
You have a great looking pasture! You have taken care of it and it will take care of your cows. As the saying goes, "Grass Farmer First, Cattle Farmer Second!"
You don't have to worry about your cattle tromping down your soil and destroying what you have built up. Take care of what is under the soil, and it takes care of the grass. I really get into taking care of the pasture and hay field, and drive my husband nuts talking about it. (and the cows) You know you have done a good job when you start finding mole runs in your pasture.

Your cows look marvelous! I love the two twins, the white face cows with the dotted eyes. From a distance, I would have to get closer to tell which one is which! They would make a good team to hook to a wagon. :lol2:

 

[inyati13]

Inyati,
You have a great looking pasture! You have taken care of it and it will take care of your cows. As the saying goes, "Grass Farmer First, Cattle Farmer Second!"
You don't have to worry about your cattle tromping down your soil and destroying what you have built up. Take care of what is under the soil, and it takes care of the grass. I really get into taking care of the pasture and hay field, and drive my husband nuts talking about it. (and the cows) You know you have done a good job when you start finding mole runs in your pasture.

Your cows look marvelous! I love the two twins, the white face cows with the dotted eyes. From a distance, I would have to get closer to tell which one is which! They would make a good team to hook to a wagon. :lol2:

Chuckie, I said elsewhere you got a good heart. I didn't know you were female so that explains it to some degree, nature puts a little extra ingredient in their heart compared to us onery males.

You have made yourself special to me now just don't tell your husband. That response was very nice. People who say thanks, you never really know if they mean it, thank you and I mean it.

 

[Chuckie]

Inyati, Well I meant it, and now I feel all fuzzy, like a Chia-Pet. Ha-ha!! The reason we link so well, is because we are from the same area, sorta-kinda! :banana:

 

[AllForage]

So why or where did your 1200-1650# cow weight criteria come from?

Why 700# weaning when you are clearly understocked and probably should be evaluating on a per acre basis?

And lastly, have you ever fed out any of your calves (grass or grain or both). In the end the beef is what this is all about.

And Lastly, lastly, even a 2500 pound mature cow will stay fat and sassy in your conditions. Its when you go west or south the rubber hits the road.

 

[inyati13]

So why or where did your 1200-1650# cow weight criteria come from?

Why 700# weaning when you are clearly understocked and probably should be evaluating on a per acre basis?

And lastly, have you ever fed out any of your calves (grass or grain or both). In the end the beef is what this is all about.

And Lastly, lastly, even a 2500 pound mature cow will stay fat and sassy in your conditions. Its when you go west or south the rubber hits the road.

I knew you would ask about the weaning weight. And I could focus a lengthy discussion on that but I'll invite you back for a discussion on that later.

A. Question: Why 700-750 wean weight. I could keep the calves longer but I do not for two reasons:

1. There is always the risk of a loss. Struck by lightning, caught in a fence, die of a diseast, have to be treated. So, moral is; strike when the iron is hot and get your money.

2. Ok, if you kept them and they brought more money, the risk of loss might be worth the risk. But guess what, one of the connundrums of the cattle business is that as the feeder gets bigger the price per pound goes down. Why because that is the business the feeder lots are in and who wants to compete with them.

B. Question: Why or where did your 1200-1650# cow weight criteria.

I like a cow with enough capacity to carry and deliver a calf. On the other hand, I don't want anymore of the 1800 to 2000 pound cows like I started with. That big black cow I had was so wide, Mike Gifford did not want to risk putting her in the squeeze chute becasue I thought we might get her locked. He palpatated her in the alley way and we backed her out. Thus, I want cows big enough but not so big they are hard to handle. I think that range catches both ends.

C. Question: Have you fed out calves (grass or grain or both).

No. There is the same issue with risk. I plan to reach about 15 commercial cows by next year if I don't have culls. That is 15 calves. In statistics, the risk increases as the numbers go up but the % loss is less. In other words. There is a greater risk of a fatal loss in 15 calves than there is 5. But if you lose 1 out of 15 that is a smaller percentage than losing 1 out of 5. I think the risk reward balance is best set at getting calves to a 7 to 8 month weaning time. Then gather a group to limit efforts, fenceline wean them, get them on some grain, give them their last shots, and get them adapted to a feeder lot type lifestyle. Then when they leave you can say you did right by them.

D. Comment: a 2500 pound mature cow will stay fat and sassy in your conditions.

I agree and it is a fact.

 

[AllForage]

My purpose about asking if you have ever fed out your calves is not to "make more money".

It was to challenge your criteria for your cattle. If you have never fed, kept, or eaten your calves how can one make decisions based on breeding? What I am getting at is I am not sure you understand the end result of your cow selection. In my opinion, everyone should test their cattle by grass finishing a steer to 24 months. I do not care what anyone thinks about flavor or their personal taste on marbling. To me, it is the most basic and simplistic form of feeding. If a steer cannot make a barely an acceptable eating experience or have mid-select marbling then the cows are too big and late maturing. That translates into a hard feeding animal for the feeder. It takes a ton of corn to finish a steer from a 1650# momma. If ones cattle require high octane feeding from weaning on to make an acceptable product then what is that really achieving? I believe corn should shorten the process, but not totally be required. This is the danger of breeding for the "barn". It brings it down to a commodity based on pounds only.

Also your phenotype list could be a very nice milk cow. Where's the beef?

 

[inyati13]

My purpose about asking if you have ever fed out your calves is not to "make more money".

It was to challenge your criteria for your cattle. If you have never fed, kept, or eaten your calves how can one make decisions based on breeding? What I am getting at is I am not sure you understand the end result of your cow selection. In my opinion, everyone should test their cattle by grass finishing a steer to 24 months. I do not care what anyone thinks about flavor or their personal taste on marbling. To me, it is the most basic and simplistic form of feeding. If a steer cannot make a barely an acceptable eating experience or have mid-select marbling then the cows are too big and late maturing. That translates into a hard feeding animal for the feeder. It takes a ton of corn to finish a steer from a 1650# momma.

Also your phenotype list could be a very nice milk cow. Where's the beef?

That is an excellent point. Really, very good. And it is not all about money to me.

 

[AllForage]

check my edit on my previous post.

Husbandry, great word you used. This has been lost in the halls of schools. I think husbandry includes all you listed as well as what someone is left with when they buy your calves.

 

[inyati13]

My purpose about asking if you have ever fed out your calves is not to "make more money".

It was to challenge your criteria for your cattle. If you have never fed, kept, or eaten your calves how can one make decisions based on breeding? What I am getting at is I am not sure you understand the end result of your cow selection. In my opinion, everyone should test their cattle by grass finishing a steer to 24 months. I do not care what anyone thinks about flavor or their personal taste on marbling. To me, it is the most basic and simplistic form of feeding. If a steer cannot make a barely an acceptable eating experience or have mid-select marbling then the cows are too big and late maturing. That translates into a hard feeding animal for the feeder. It takes a ton of corn to finish a steer from a 1650# momma. If ones cattle require high octane feeding from weaning on to make an acceptable product then what is that really achieving? I believe corn should shorten the process, but not totally be required. This is the danger of breeding for the "barn". It brings it down to a commodity based on pounds only.

Also your phenotype list could be a very nice milk cow. Where's the beef?

But how much obligation does the producer have to make live easy for the feeder. I want the animal prepared but the buyer has to best judge which animals will feed out the cheapest.

 

[AllForage]

the sustainable "type" of cow based on moderation can function in any market.

I think if you try grazing your way through winter like you posted elsewhere and test a steer you might see things differently.

 

[inyati13]

the sustainable "type" of cow based on moderation can function in any market.

I think if you try grazing your way through winter like you posted elsewhere and test a steer you might see things differently.

Going to get off but I understand where you are headed.

 

[AllForage]

Just re-read your explanation of cow weight. Myself and probably most here have cows from 900-1350 and have not pulled a calf in years. (bull selection!) Capacity on a cow is not a function of just her liveweight. It is her structure. That is what is missing from your criteria. Guts is written here often and is misunderstood. Guts can be very wasteful and inefficient (think of a jersey cow on pasture). One can have capacity but not be gutty and wasteful. I have seen this transformation with my Anxieties. My cows that I would call gutty often have the lowest hanging weights in their calves. The major benefit from marketing meat is following a cows calves to hanging weights. It makes one look at things differently.

 

[inyati13]

Just re-read your explanation of cow weight. Myself and probably most here have cows from 900-1350 and have not pulled a calf in years. (bull selection!) Capacity on a cow is not a function of just her liveweight. It is her structure. That is what is missing from your criteria. Guts is written here often and is misunderstood. Guts can be very wasteful and inefficient (think of a jersey cow on pasture). One can have capacity but not be gutty and wasteful. I have seen this transformation with my Anxieties. My cows that I would call gutty often have the lowest hanging weights in their calves. The major benefit from marketing meat is following a cows calves to hanging weights. It makes one look at things differently.

Good concepts. I can tell you have arrived at them from experience. I worry when I see the small cows. I have a couple that are probably 900 or more that seem too small. BTW, I have asked your opinion on the Boyd Herefords. I know you have herefords, what is your views on the Victor Domino Herefords. He has some pics up now.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Great looking girls! Like I said before, you just need more!!!
It would be neat if you raised your own steer from one of your cows, just to see what you are producing.... and they taste great!

 

[glacierridge]

Look good, but I think they need more spring of rib. Unless its the pics. A few appear very slab sided.

Beware of cows that put lots of fat on in that area. I found them to be poorer milkers and inefficient.

AllForage. I think is is some distortion from the lens. Whan I downloaded, i was a little disappointed because they are better looking in real life. I don't see many cattle here that look this good. But I don't see pasture like mine either. Thanks. I place value on your input, you got a sharp mind.

Pictures don't really do anyone's stock justice, we are taking a 3D living thing and transforming it into a 2D image.
I know your group must look so nice in person Ron, I'll have to figure out how and when to get down there sometime.
They sure are healthy with their glossy coats. My freemartin would fit in your group; shiny, gorgeous, sweet and healthy. (oh, and black!!! ;-) )

 

[glacierridge]

Just re-read your explanation of cow weight. Myself and probably most here have cows from 900-1350 and have not pulled a calf in years. (bull selection!) Capacity on a cow is not a function of just her liveweight. It is her structure. That is what is missing from your criteria. Guts is written here often and is misunderstood. Guts can be very wasteful and inefficient (think of a jersey cow on pasture). One can have capacity but not be gutty and wasteful. I have seen this transformation with my Anxieties. My cows that I would call gutty often have the lowest hanging weights in their calves. The major benefit from marketing meat is following a cows calves to hanging weights. It makes one look at things differently.

We have a few that aren't "deep"... but those are the same ones that are also going to be long and wide (not like a gut/belly wide, wide all the way down her length)
They are three dimensional animals, so even if the girls aren't "deep" in the rib, they have volume coming in two other directions as well, they produce much milk and their calves grow!!!

Here is an example (really quite hate these pics, her udder looks so ugly here because she literally had her calf a few hours earlier and its so ridiculously turgid)

Her udder doesn't look so painful now. Her nice heifer calf is quite thick and is growing by leaps and bounds, faster than the rest her age.