Fast death of a dairy cow

[born2run]

Fresh under 20 days, not sure how many DIM exactly. She walked into the parlor, was milked by my partner, than went down 3 times before exiting. Fast resps, 104 temp, ears cold. Begged her to get up and managed to get her into the sick pen. Tried contacting the herd manager with no success, gave her a shot of Banamine, and tried to go back to milking. It continued to bother me that she back there in that condition though. Attempted an IV of just Dextrose and B complex, but I haven't did that enough to be beyond "trained." :roll: By this time she was struggling for breath, bleeding out of her nose, and I was keenly aware she was dying. Never seen one go this fast, and I felt helpess. Within an hour of leaving the parlor she was dead. All I seen was that the herd manager gave her Dexamethasone, Banamine, and Polyflex on the 30th. Any clues why she died so fast?

I have a hard time not holding myself personally responsible for her death, even though I'm told that there is nothing I could've did to save her. I keep thinking "what if."

 

[bigbull338]

Fresh under 20 days, not sure how many DIM exactly. She walked into the parlor, was milked by my partner, than went down 3 times before exiting. Fast resps, 104 temp, ears cold. Begged her to get up and managed to get her into the sick pen. Tried contacting the herd manager with no success, gave her a shot of Banamine, and tried to go back to milking. It continued to bother me that she back there in that condition though. Attempted an IV of just Dextrose and B complex, but I haven't did that enough to be beyond "trained." :roll: By this time she was struggling for breath, bleeding out of her nose, and I was keenly aware she was dying. Never seen one go this fast, and I felt helpess. Within an hour of leaving the parlor she was dead. All I seen was that the herd manager gave her Dexamethasone, Banamine, and Polyflex on the 30th. Any clues why she died so fast?

I have a hard time not holding myself personally responsible for her death, even though I'm told that there is nothing I could've did to save her. I keep thinking "what if."

ok it sounds to me like she died a quick death of blackleg.esp with the bleeding an quickness of death.when she died did you check her brisket legs an shoulders to see if they was real mushy.as you know they are the signs of blackleg.about 25yrs ago i had a cow drop dead an hour after she was milked. she fell over dead at the water trough.checked her legs an shoulders.an they was mushy.we knew it was blackleg.but had the vet out anyway an he confirmed it.so we had to vacc the milking an dry cows for blackleg.

 

[Bez>]

Fresh under 20 days, not sure how many DIM exactly. She walked into the parlor, was milked by my partner, than went down 3 times before exiting. Fast resps, 104 temp, ears cold. Begged her to get up and managed to get her into the sick pen. Tried contacting the herd manager with no success, gave her a shot of Banamine, and tried to go back to milking. It continued to bother me that she back there in that condition though. Attempted an IV of just Dextrose and B complex, but I haven't did that enough to be beyond "trained." :roll: By this time she was struggling for breath, bleeding out of her nose, and I was keenly aware she was dying. Never seen one go this fast, and I felt helpess. Within an hour of leaving the parlor she was dead. All I seen was that the herd manager gave her Dexamethasone, Banamine, and Polyflex on the 30th. Any clues why she died so fast?

I have a hard time not holding myself personally responsible for her death, even though I'm told that there is nothing I could've did to save her. I keep thinking "what if."

Seems to me that as a dairy you may need to re-examine your emergency procedures.

If unable to contact herd manager someone needs authority to contact the veterinarian. Surely as a business you have one on call?

You say you milked her - that milk went into the clients food chain. Sick cow and milk to client? May / may not be a problem - but I would not be happy if I found out my kids were drinking that milk.

If you / herd manager are not concerned about that I would be concerned.

There is a potential serious problem here that has its roots in health management and herd health.

You have also not indicated whether or not the veterinarian has post op'ed / you have obviously not found the problem.

Strikes me this is a potential health issue for the general public. Needs to be solved asap.

Regards,

Bez>

 

[born2run]

Should've stated the cow's milk did not go into the bulk milk. They're working on seperate facilities right now to house sick animals, but they won't be running until August. For now treated cows are ran through the main parlor and milked into a pail.

I agree management is an issue there, and it was a huge source of frustration for me. I resorted to calling MilkMaid, who I'll publicly thank here. I have tried repeatedly to get emergency procedures, but I am told one thing and than push comes to shove, I can't reach anyone. Boss doesn't know the herd well enough to even point me in the right direction, and the herd manager turns his phone off at night or doesn't hear the calls (not sure which). He responded 1 1/2 hours too late, after she'd died. Like I told MM, it's basically me, myself, and I there.

Bez...I am concerned. Thus the reason for the post at all. I'd like to at least be aware of what I was dealing with so I know how to handle something like it in the future. They'll be at 800 head in 90 days, so my fears are valid. I figure I can't reach anyone, the very least I can do is to educate myself so I can treat what comes up, alone.

I wouldn't know if they did an autopsy on her this morning. I work nights and am pretty isolated from the rest of the crew.

 

[Bez>]

Should've stated the cow's milk did not go into the bulk milk. They're working on seperate facilities right now to house sick animals, but they won't be running until August. For now treated cows are ran through the main parlor and milked into a pail.

I agree management is an issue there, and it was a huge source of frustration for me. I resorted to calling MilkMaid, who I'll publicly thank here. I have tried repeatedly to get emergency procedures, but I am told one thing and than push comes to shove, I can't reach anyone. Boss doesn't know the herd well enough to even point me in the right direction, and the herd manager turns his phone off at night or doesn't hear the calls (not sure which). He responded 1 1/2 hours too late, after she'd died. Like I told MM, it's basically me, myself, and I there.

Bez...I am concerned. Thus the reason for the post at all. I'd like to at least be aware of what I was dealing with so I know how to handle something like it in the future. They'll be at 800 head in 90 days, so my fears are valid. I figure I can't reach anyone, the very least I can do is to educate myself so I can treat what comes up, alone.

I wouldn't know if they did an autopsy on her this morning. I work nights and am pretty isolated from the rest of the crew.

Thanks for the quick come back.

That many cows milking, it is simply good business to keep a vet tech on staff or a veterinarian on retainer.

Sounds like you have some issues to get solved - or you will end up looking for work elsewhere through pure frustration.

Good luck on this one.

Regards

Bez>

 

[mnmtranching]

I think with 800 milking cows your going to see death again.

And all the Vets in the country couldn't have saved that one.

 

[born2run]

She was dying before she ever entered the parlor. That's all I know from my partner asking the herd manager. I've grown up around this business, it's all I know. However the sheer numbers are something to get used to. It's a constant education. Death is something I'm accustomed to, just not this fast. :roll:

Thanks for the replies.

 

[dun]

This could have all been prevented had she been vaccinated. The medicine is cheaper than losing a cow. Sounds like your guys herd manager is either an idiot or his hands are tied by the owner who is an idiot. If they have no idea how to treat these cattle they have no need to be in the cattle business. Its idiocy such as this that really p'os me.

Your swinging a rather large loop with very little information to go on.

dun

 

[GMN]

20 days into a lactation and still not in the tank, I mean was this cow sick beforehand, that she was being taken outof the tank, or did she just come in and have a blood coming out of her nose, breathing hard as the first sign of something wrong?

Did she have mastitis, any problems at calving? Seems unlikely to me that it is blackleg, the fast breathing makes me think along the lines of respiratory or a cardiac issue. Would have been ideal to have a necropsy done for sure on this one.

GMN

 

[born2run]

No clue about calving problems, but I suspected respiratory simply based on what the herd manager had given her prior. L/F teat had been stepped on, and treated with Hetacin-K. I suspected hot mastitis when I ran a Keto check on her. I couldn't get urine so I resorted to milk. It wasn't milk, more like a bloody serum. Maybe by some sheer stroke of good look a necropsy was performed. Next time I see someone who knows something I'll ask more questions.

 

[GMN]

No clue about calving problems, but I suspected respiratory simply based on what the herd manager had given her prior. L/F teat had been stepped on, and treated with Hetacin-K. I suspected hot mastitis when I ran a Keto check on her. I couldn't get urine so I resorted to milk. It wasn't milk, more like a bloody serum. Maybe by some sheer stroke of good look a necropsy was performed. Next time I see someone who knows something I'll ask more questions.

Bloody milk, maybe she had a severe infection, systemic that just shut down all her organs, and fast. Do not feel bad, you did all you could in the situation you were in.

GMN

 

[cowvet]

I don't think blackleg - she was treated two days previously for being unwell?? I've never seen blackleg that slow - it is usually SUDDEN death (two days is slow in my book!).

Interested as to why she was treated with dexamethasone - this is a corticosteroid and is well known to suppress the immune system - if she had a bacteria or viral infection then it certainly didn't help her.
I have no problem with the Banamine.

You will not know what killed her without a postmortem. Guessing doesn't give reliable answers or help in a preventative program for the future (and some deaths aren't preventable!)

PS: I didn't read all of the posts - some are a bit long!!. The milk issue is certainly significant and sounds a bit like toxic mastitis - if she had septicaemia/toxaemia from this then it would explain the death and probably the bleeding from the nose. Some of these nasty toxic mastitis bugs can kill a cow quite quickly regardless of treatment but in saying that the farm manager also needs to review procedures to make sure that mastitis cows are being picked up FAST- sometomes with 800 cows the individual sick cow gets missed. If "someone" jabbed the cow on the 30th and didn't specifically check her udder then they need to reassess the sick cow diagnosis/treatment procedures. A good start would be to remove the dexamethasone from random sick cow treatments!!!

 

[born2run]

Cowvet...

Just a random question, but how about using Pred-ef 2x instead of Dexamethasone? What would you recommend giving for systemic mastitis? I have to get permission from the herd manager, but could be cleared to give the likes of Tetradur or LA200 via IV or IM if I needed to. There have been about 2 cases during the entire almost 4 years I've been there where I've thought oxytetracline should be used. Usually the protocol is if she's running a fever associated with mastitis to give Polyflex, Banamine, and an IMM treatment such as Pirsue.

I've had my questions about dex ever since I "allegedly" killed a cow after following the herd manager's directions for treating nervous ketotis. It's made me real shy about using it at all, for anything.

Regarding a system in place for catching mastitis, they try to have one with having a shift supervisor (such as myself) cleared to give whatever it takes. Generally for most cases I am comfortable with that, but although I've been around this for years and years, I come upon things that plain confuse me. The herd manager by his own admission is not a people person, and this presents problems when it comes to asking him questions.

 

[born2run]

If he is not a people person he doesnt need to be doing this business. You have to be a people person to be a successful business man whether it be farming or just running a business in general. If he isnt a people person he needs to be gotten rid of as he is hurting your bosses bottom line.

I agree with you. But obviously since I'm an employee there myself I'm forced to do one of two things...deal with him the best I can or find employment elsewhere and hope for a better manager.

 

[GMN]

Cowvet...

Just a random question, but how about using Pred-ef 2x instead of Dexamethasone? What would you recommend giving for systemic mastitis? I have to get permission from the herd manager, but could be cleared to give the likes of Tetradur or LA200 via IV or IM if I needed to. There have been about 2 cases during the entire almost 4 years I've been there where I've thought oxytetracline should be used. Usually the protocol is if she's running a fever associated with mastitis to give Polyflex, Banamine, and an IMM treatment such as Pirsue.

I've had my questions about dex ever since I "allegedly" killed a cow after following the herd manager's directions for treating nervous ketotis. It's made me real shy about using it at all, for anything.

Regarding a system in place for catching mastitis, they try to have one with having a shift supervisor (such as myself) cleared to give whatever it takes. Generally for most cases I am comfortable with that, but although I've been around this for years and years, I come upon things that plain confuse me. The herd manager by his own admission is not a people person, and this presents problems when it comes to asking him questions.

I always thought predef was not supposed to be used with cows with any sort of mastitis, maybe Vicky the Vet can help out on this one?

GMN

 

[cowvet]

Cowvet...

Just a random question, but how about using Pred-ef 2x instead of Dexamethasone? What would you recommend giving for systemic mastitis? I have to get permission from the herd manager, but could be cleared to give the likes of Tetradur or LA200 via IV or IM if I needed to. There have been about 2 cases during the entire almost 4 years I've been there where I've thought oxytetracline should be used. Usually the protocol is if she's running a fever associated with mastitis to give Polyflex, Banamine, and an IMM treatment such as Pirsue.

I've had my questions about dex ever since I "allegedly" killed a cow after following the herd manager's directions for treating nervous ketotis. It's made me real shy about using it at all, for anything.

Regarding a system in place for catching mastitis, they try to have one with having a shift supervisor (such as myself) cleared to give whatever it takes. Generally for most cases I am comfortable with that, but although I've been around this for years and years, I come upon things that plain confuse me. The herd manager by his own admission is not a people person, and this presents problems when it comes to asking him questions.

One of the indications for "Predef" is for acute toxic mastitis... here is a quote from the Pfizer drug info on it...


"Overwhelming Infections with Severe Toxicity: In animals moribund from overwhelmingly severe infections for which specific antibacterial therapy is available (e.g., critical pneumonia, peritonitis, endometritis, septic mastitis), intensive PREDEF 2X therapy may aid in correcting the circulatory defect by counteracting the responsible inflammatory changes, thereby permitting the antibacterial agent to exert its full effect. "

http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overvie ... species=SW

However - this is not a drug I would be jabbing willy nilly into every sick cow - I would use it in toxic animals as indicated on the link (ie, likely to die if you don't do something drastic!) . It is not a drug we have available in NZ so I can only go off the official recommendations from the drug company. If you look at some of the research on this drug then the advantages are questionable???

Your mastitis bugs are probably going to be different to what we see here... for cases of toxic mastitis where the cow is SICK then I would usually treat the cow IV with a tetracycline and some non-steroidal (like your Banamine?). My aim at this stage is primarily to save the cows life.

A bacterial culture and sensitivity would be fantastic - however the milk sample needs to be taken prior to treatment and results take about three days - so you have to treat in the meantime!

With regards to treating ketosis cows - that is one of the very few incidences where I would use dexamethasone as part of my treatment (as long as there were no concurrent bacterial/viral conditions I was worried about!)

Keep in mind that some sick cows will die - despite correct treatment with appropriate drugs etc. However using the correct drugs in the right situations is a big step in increasing the survival/success rate of the animals you treat.

My suggestion would be to have a good talk to a local cattle veterinarian in your specific area who is familiar with the farming system. Your drug names, and the drugs available are different to what I can and can't use here!

 

[milkmaid]

cowvet - FWIW, Predef and Dex are both corticosteriods. Similar actions, Predef has a milk and slaughter withdrawal, dex does not.

 

[cowvet]

cowvet - FWIW, Predef and Dex are both corticosteriods. Similar actions, Predef has a milk and slaughter withdrawal, dex does not.

Thanks for that - I am aware that systemic bacterial, viral or fungal infection is a definite contraindication for dexamethasone - couldn't find any similar info on Predef...