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TennesseeTuxedo

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True Grit Farms":36zejn1j said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/08/trump-tells-farming-convention-american-dream-is-roaring-back-to-life.html
At least this POTUS seems to be willing to help the deplorable. Now all we need is a tariff on any imported meat and vegetables.

Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
 
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True Grit Farms

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TennesseeTuxedo":i99up3zu said:
True Grit Farms":i99up3zu said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/08/trump-tells-farming-convention-american-dream-is-roaring-back-to-life.html
At least this POTUS seems to be willing to help the deplorable. Now all we need is a tariff on any imported meat and vegetables.

Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
Did you attend the convention and hear the speech?
 

TennesseeTuxedo

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True Grit Farms":1bw62ncr said:
TennesseeTuxedo":1bw62ncr said:
True Grit Farms":1bw62ncr said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/08/trump-tells-farming-convention-american-dream-is-roaring-back-to-life.html
At least this POTUS seems to be willing to help the deplorable. Now all we need is a tariff on any imported meat and vegetables.

Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
Did you attend the convention and hear the speech?

Yes. He still thinks quite a lot of himself.
 
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True Grit Farms

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TennesseeTuxedo":2km6lin3 said:
True Grit Farms":2km6lin3 said:
TennesseeTuxedo":2km6lin3 said:
Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
Did you attend the convention and hear the speech?

Yes. He still thinks quite a lot of himself.
That's the Yankee in him TT. I've met very few Yankees that are humble from the city.
 

TexasBred

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TennesseeTuxedo":1z3ojuet said:
True Grit Farms":1z3ojuet said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/08/trump-tells-farming-convention-american-dream-is-roaring-back-to-life.html
At least this POTUS seems to be willing to help the deplorable. Now all we need is a tariff on any imported meat and vegetables.

Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
:nod: :nod:
Most countries pay a tariff to export to the US now and most of the meat we import is frozen boneless meat for processing(hamburger, stew meat, canned stuff).
 
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True Grit Farms

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TexasBred":1k7myage said:
TennesseeTuxedo":1k7myage said:
True Grit Farms":1k7myage said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/08/trump-tells-farming-convention-american-dream-is-roaring-back-to-life.html
At least this POTUS seems to be willing to help the deplorable. Now all we need is a tariff on any imported meat and vegetables.

Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
:nod: :nod:
Most countries pay a tariff to export to the US now and most of the meat we import is frozen boneless meat for processing(hamburger, stew meat, canned stuff).
I was including seafood as meat, Canada and Mexico don't pay a tarrif. We have a trade deficit of $12+ billion with Canada, that needs fixing to our favor.
 

Silver

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True Grit Farms":1q7vmndk said:
TexasBred":1q7vmndk said:
TennesseeTuxedo":1q7vmndk said:
Protectionism always ends so well. Smoot-Hawley anyone?
:nod: :nod:
Most countries pay a tariff to export to the US now and most of the meat we import is frozen boneless meat for processing(hamburger, stew meat, canned stuff).
I was including seafood as meat, Canada and Mexico don't pay a tarrif. We have a trade deficit of $12+ billion with Canada, that needs fixing to our favor.

Actually, the US enjoys a trade surplus with Canada. And I'm okay with that, at least we are trading. Benefits us both.
 

boondocks

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I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.
 
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True Grit Farms

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Silver":2r4d8guw said:
True Grit Farms":2r4d8guw said:
TexasBred":2r4d8guw said:
:nod: :nod:
Most countries pay a tariff to export to the US now and most of the meat we import is frozen boneless meat for processing(hamburger, stew meat, canned stuff).
I was including seafood as meat, Canada and Mexico don't pay a tarrif. We have a trade deficit of $12+ billion with Canada, that needs fixing to our favor.

Actually, the US enjoys a trade surplus with Canada. And I'm okay with that, at least we are trading. Benefits us both.
Depends on the numbers that are used, you are right when you include pencil pushers. I miss spoke, we have a $12+ billion dollar trade deficit on real goods. Paper pushers, speculators and services don't mean anything to me. The US is full of shysters and cut throats, "wall street" that will do anything for a dollar, including taking Canada to the cleaners, which they have.
 

ddd75

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boondocks":47c0ucnt said:
I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.


if you spent your whole life creating a business... just like a farm.. would you want it taxed so much you have to sell it?

Just because people have a successful business doesn' tmean they need to give it away.
 

Silver

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True Grit Farms":9yw3d8hp said:
Depends on the numbers that are used, you are right when you include pencil pushers. I miss spoke, we have a $12+ billion dollar trade deficit on real goods. Paper pushers, speculators and services don't mean anything to me. The US is full of shysters and cut throats, "wall street" that will do anything for a dollar, including taking Canada to the cleaners, which they have.

And what does that $12B deficit on real goods even mean? If Canada were to sell her heavy crude to someone else, that deficit would be a surplus. And that heavy crude the US imports is refined in the US creating jobs and often sold abroad for more wealth.
People can work those numbers any way they want to get whatever result they want. The truth is that international trade is better than no trade for everybody.
 

sim.-ang.king

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ddd75":1tdomre9 said:
boondocks":1tdomre9 said:
I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.


if you spent your whole life creating a business... just like a farm.. would you want it taxed so much you have to sell it?

Just because people have a successful business doesn't mean they need to give it away.
It's does, if we ever wish to become the great socialist country, we were destined to be!!!
 

boondocks

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ddd75":254x0ta1 said:
boondocks":254x0ta1 said:
I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.


if you spent your whole life creating a business... just like a farm.. would you want it taxed so much you have to sell it?

Just because people have a successful business doesn' tmean they need to give it away.

I'm fonder of facts than rhetoric. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ly-2-1000/ Here's two:
"[E]ach year, there are roughly 5,000 estates that pay the federal estate tax out of roughly 2.6 million deaths each year." "[The Pres.] claimed ending the tax would "protect millions of small businesses and the American farmer." But PolitiFact National’s rating was Pants on Fire: Only 5,460 estates even pay the tax each year, with only 80 being small businesses or farms."
So: to "protect" those 80 small businesses and farms, the rest of us must now pay for the millionaires (in the other 5,380 other cases) to transfer their millions tax-free to their trust-fund offspring. (Hey, those ski lift tickets in St. Moritz aren't cheap!). Thus, to recap, the rest of us hard-working folk have to make up the millions that will be lost under the new law, which all-but repeals estate taxes. (Currently only .2% of estates are subject to it. With the raising of the exemption from about $11,000,000 to about $22,000,000 for married couples, almost no one will be paying it). I think if this country has treated you so well that you're a millionaire many many times over, you shouldn't try to stick it to your country by not paying your fair share.
 

TennesseeTuxedo

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boondocks":26u81ozt said:
ddd75":26u81ozt said:
boondocks":26u81ozt said:
I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.


if you spent your whole life creating a business... just like a farm.. would you want it taxed so much you have to sell it?

Just because people have a successful business doesn' tmean they need to give it away.

I'm fonder of facts than rhetoric. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ly-2-1000/ Here's two:
"[E]ach year, there are roughly 5,000 estates that pay the federal estate tax out of roughly 2.6 million deaths each year." "[The Pres.] claimed ending the tax would "protect millions of small businesses and the American farmer." But PolitiFact National’s rating was Pants on Fire: Only 5,460 estates even pay the tax each year, with only 80 being small businesses or farms."
So: to "protect" those 80 small businesses and farms, the rest of us must now pay for the millionaires (in the other 5,380 other cases) to transfer their millions tax-free to their trust-fund offspring. (Hey, those ski lift tickets in St. Moritz aren't cheap!). Thus, to recap, the rest of us hard-working folk have to make up the millions that will be lost under the new law, which all-but repeals estate taxes. (Currently only .2% of estates are subject to it. With the raising of the exemption from about $11,000,000 to about $22,000,000 for married couples, almost no one will be paying it). I think if this country has treated you so well that you're a millionaire many many times over, you shouldn't try to stick it to your country by not paying your fair share.

I'd rather stick it to them than have them stick it to my heirs.
 

callmefence

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boondocks":3oaorufh said:
ddd75":3oaorufh said:
boondocks":3oaorufh said:
I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.


if you spent your whole life creating a business... just like a farm.. would you want it taxed so much you have to sell it?

Just because people have a successful business doesn' tmean they need to give it away.

I'm fonder of facts than rhetoric. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ly-2-1000/ Here's two:
"[E]ach year, there are roughly 5,000 estates that pay the federal estate tax out of roughly 2.6 million deaths each year." "[The Pres.] claimed ending the tax would "protect millions of small businesses and the American farmer." But PolitiFact National’s rating was Pants on Fire: Only 5,460 estates even pay the tax each year, with only 80 being small businesses or farms."
So: to "protect" those 80 small businesses and farms, the rest of us must now pay for the millionaires (in the other 5,380 other cases) to transfer their millions tax-free to their trust-fund offspring. (Hey, those ski lift tickets in St. Moritz aren't cheap!). Thus, to recap, the rest of us hard-working folk have to make up the millions that will be lost under the new law, which all-but repeals estate taxes. (Currently only .2% of estates are subject to it. With the raising of the exemption from about $11,000,000 to about $22,000,000 for married couples, almost no one will be paying it). I think if this country has treated you so well that you're a millionaire many many times over, you shouldn't try to stick it to your country by not paying your fair share.

The only way it can be fair is either everyone pays the same. Or nobody pays anything.
 
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True Grit Farms

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boondocks":qt2uc5e7 said:
ddd75":qt2uc5e7 said:
boondocks":qt2uc5e7 said:
I'm a bit cynical that the estate tax thing was really to protect "family farms" rather then the Vanderbilts, Waltons (or, yeah, the Donald). Will be looking to see what the Exec Order on rural broadband does, as well as the effect of the end of net neutrality.


if you spent your whole life creating a business... just like a farm.. would you want it taxed so much you have to sell it?

Just because people have a successful business doesn' tmean they need to give it away.

I'm fonder of facts than rhetoric. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... ly-2-1000/ Here's two:
"[E]ach year, there are roughly 5,000 estates that pay the federal estate tax out of roughly 2.6 million deaths each year." "[The Pres.] claimed ending the tax would "protect millions of small businesses and the American farmer." But PolitiFact National’s rating was Pants on Fire: Only 5,460 estates even pay the tax each year, with only 80 being small businesses or farms."
So: to "protect" those 80 small businesses and farms, the rest of us must now pay for the millionaires (in the other 5,380 other cases) to transfer their millions tax-free to their trust-fund offspring. (Hey, those ski lift tickets in St. Moritz aren't cheap!). Thus, to recap, the rest of us hard-working folk have to make up the millions that will be lost under the new law, which all-but repeals estate taxes. (Currently only .2% of estates are subject to it. With the raising of the exemption from about $11,000,000 to about $22,000,000 for married couples, almost no one will be paying it). I think if this country has treated you so well that you're a millionaire many many times over, you shouldn't try to stick it to your country by not paying your fair share.
Why should anyone's estate pay the government anything? Everything they have acquired has been taxed a few times already. Acquiring wealth shouldn't mean you have to pay more in taxes to the government. I'm the government and I do not feel like anyone owes me anything. And if I ever could accumulate $22 million in assets I sure wouldn't want my heirs to have to pay estate taxes on it. It seems un American to me to treat people different because they have more or less than I do.
 

boondocks

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True Grit Farms":1mhgt7sv said:
Why should anyone's estate pay the government anything? Everything they have acquired has been taxed a few times already. Acquiring wealth shouldn't mean you have to pay more in taxes to the government. I'm the government and I do not feel like anyone owes me anything. And if I ever could accumulate $22 million in assets I sure wouldn't want my heirs to have to pay estate taxes on it. It seems un American to me to treat people different because they have more or less than I do.

You're ignoring the problem of the stepped-up basis:
"[A] policy reason for the estate tax: Without it, inheritance becomes a mass tax-avoidance scheme. While the owners were living, their assets piled up capital gains. If they’d sold them while they were alive, they’d have to pay taxes on those gains. But when people die, the estate system does something called “stepping up the basis” of those assets, which in plain English, means that the assets are revalued to today’s price, so that when the heirs sell them, they only have to pay the difference between the asset’s value when they inherited, and the asset’s value when they sell." https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... estate-tax

Anyone want to do away with the stepped-up basis? The gains have NOT yet been taxed when they are transferred to the decedent's beneficiaries.
To recap: I inherit Acme stock worth 22 million (dear God, please). My dear departed pappy paid 10 million for it, and it appreciated in value over the years. He didn't turn a single shovel-full of dirt for that $12 mil increase in value, just let it sit from 2007-2016. He wasn't out milking cows for it, or building fence, or cutting timber, or mining coal. Not only did he not put in labor to achieve the increased value, he'd discovered the original $10 mil in the walls of his hunting shack back in the woods--put there by an amigo of Capone who was a rum-runner, but forgot where he put it. (Too much rum).
So, when pap recently departed this mortal coil for his eternal reward, I, as his sole beneficiary (if you don't count all those illegit kids--and I don't), receive stock worth $22mil. No tax was ever paid on the appreciation in value from $10mil to $22mil. (Had he sold it while living, it would have been taxable). Now, not only did he never have to pay tax on the $12 mil gain, but when I inherit the stock, I get it at a "stepped up basis"--meaning it's as-if I paid $22mil for it--the value at his death. I can sell it the next day and owe no capital gains tax. (Nor, as previously noted, is any estate tax due, $22mil being the new cap for marrieds).
In effectively doing away with the estate tax, we're not preventing that 12mil from being double-taxed; we're preventing it from ever being taxed at all. If one is a tax nihilist or anarchist and believes none of us should ever have to pay a dime in taxes, this would seem a fair outcome. But given that we rather like to have roads and bridges and occasional (ok, frequent) wars, and bridges to nowhere, and meals on wheels, we have to pay for those things. And cutting out the estate tax puts a higher burden on people who did not just earn $22mil without doing a thing to earn it, other than genetically being at the right place at the right time.
 
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