F1 Tiger Stripe Question

[oscar p]

I have been talking to 2 different breeders that breed for the f1 tiger stripes. #1 breeder has hereford cows with brahman bulls. The 2 breeder has Brahman cows with hereford bulls. #2 breeder say's his heifers will make the bigger cows, because of the bigger brahman cows and the hereford bull. #1 breeder say's thats not true, it makes no difference. I know the hereford cows aren't near as big as the brahman cows, and the brahman bulls are taller than the hereford bulls. Whats everyones thoughts on the subject.

 

[xbred]

LSU has research that concludes calves are bigger when the brahma so on the bull side...

 

[oscar p]

So according to LSU, the Brahman bull over the Hereford cows, will make the biggest heifers, there fore the biggest cows??

 

[novatech]

I would pick the cattle according to the climate and/or pasture. Brahmans will not do as well in colder climates as Herfords. In south Texas or any other hot humid area I would go with the Brahman cow. In your area I would go with the Herford cows. It is much easier to keep their BCS where it should be if selecting this way. I am not saying that either one cannot take the weather conditions but they will just do better in their proper enviornment.
Which ever you select get momas that can mantain their BCS through the time it takes to raise the calf. I have seen these big calves suck some cows down to skin and bones by the time the calves are weaned. It is hard to maintain a calf per year program with this type of cattle.

 

[oscar p]

Its the F1 heifers I'm interested in buying novatech. I understand what your saying. I was wanting everyones thoughts on which heifers would make the bigger cows? Hereford bulls over Brahman cows? Or Brahman bulls over Hereford cows? or would it make a difference?

 

[novatech]

It does seem like a simple question. But it is not so much the breed selection as it is the selection of the size of the animals selected. With brahmans there is a vast range of bulls one can select from. You can go from 1800 lbs to 2800 lbs. on bull selection. Cows can range from a 1000 lbs to 2000 lbs. Herfords seem to be a lot more uniform in size but I am sure you can also find variables as to size and weight.

 

[Frankie]

I have been talking to 2 different breeders that breed for the f1 tiger stripes. #1 breeder has hereford cows with brahman bulls. The 2 breeder has Brahman cows with hereford bulls. #2 breeder say's his heifers will make the bigger cows, because of the bigger brahman cows and the hereford bull. #1 breeder say's thats not true, it makes no difference. I know the hereford cows aren't near as big as the brahman cows, and the brahman bulls are taller than the hereford bulls. Whats everyones thoughts on the subject.

I'd have to go with breeder #1. Within each breed you'll find some big animals and some not so big. The size of the individual animals being bred will be what decides the size of the heifers, not the breed of the bull or cow.

 

[dun]

Consider also that frequently the F1 is a bigger animal then either of the parents. Don;t know if it's heterosis or just the way things work out.

 

[sodfarmer490]

I have been talking to 2 different breeders that breed for the f1 tiger stripes. #1 breeder has hereford cows with brahman bulls. The 2 breeder has Brahman cows with hereford bulls. #2 breeder say's his heifers will make the bigger cows, because of the bigger brahman cows and the hereford bull. #1 breeder say's thats not true, it makes no difference. I know the hereford cows aren't near as big as the brahman cows, and the brahman bulls are taller than the hereford bulls. Whats everyones thoughts on the subject.

well here's my humble opinion, saying that both cows and bulls are average for their breed, i would go with the brahaman cows having the larger mature heifers, as i believe that calves take after (inherit more characteristics) from their mothers, in most cases than the bull.

 

[xbred]

when the brahman influence is inherited from the sire...the calves will be bigger...i don't know if this size will continue throughout the growth of the calf...typically when the mother has the brahman influence they will do a better job raising the calf in the south...there are several studies availiable at LSU...i son't know how to provide the links, but look them up..they are interesting...

 

[Third Row]

For what it's worth, it's cheaper to get good Hereford cows and Brahman bulls than good Brahman cows and Hereford bulls.

 

[cfpinz]

I wouldn't want either one but if I had to choose I'd go for the herf cows and the brahma bull. And I'd pray the heifers took on their dams' disposition.

cfpinz

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

I believe there is a TAMU study on this showing the brahman cow x with hereford bull had less calving problems than vice versa. Of course with the brahman you are breeding to calve at 3 years rather than 2. And yes, good brahman cows will cost more than hereford but will generally produce more calves over their lifetime.

 

[Beefy]

i would imagine it has to do with the animals performance (themselves and parents) and has little to do with which breed went where.


personally, i tend to like the looks of the ones out of brahman cows better, but i'm not sure i could tell you the difference if they were all in a pen together.

 

[oscar p]

Thanks for all the input, I'm leaving to check them out, in Warner Robins, Ga. 21 braford heifers. Wish me luck.

 

[07whoop]

heres some facts for you about birth weights, i am sure this could correlate to mature body weight as well:

1) Bos indicus (Brahman) sired calves out of Bos taurus (Hereford) cows have a much heavier avg birthweights than Bos taurus sired calves out of Bos indicus cows (15-20 lb heavier)

2) In Bos Indicus sired calves out of Bos taurus cows, the bull calves are much heaver (12-16 Lbs heavier) than heifer calves. In Bos taurus sired calves out of Bos indicus cows, there is little difference in avg birthweight between bulls and heifers. In straight Bos indicus and straight Bos taurus calves, the bulls are about 5 pounds heavier than the heifer calves.

3) For various crosses, the more Bos indicus in the sire compared to the amount of Bos inidcus in the dam, the heavier the calves tend to be.

 

[novatech]

heres some facts for you about birth weights, i am sure this could correlate to mature body weight as well:

1) Bos indicus (Brahman) sired calves out of Bos taurus (Hereford) cows have a much heavier avg birthweights than Bos taurus sired calves out of Bos indicus cows (15-20 lb heavier)

2) In Bos Indicus sired calves out of Bos taurus cows, the bull calves are much heaver (12-16 Lbs heavier) than heifer calves. In Bos taurus sired calves out of Bos indicus cows, there is little difference in avg birthweight between bulls and heifers. In straight Bos indicus and straight Bos taurus calves, the bulls are about 5 pounds heavier than the heifer calves.

3) For various crosses, the more Bos indicus in the sire compared to the amount of Bos inidcus in the dam, the heavier the calves tend to be.

My average for strait brahman is less than 80 lbs.
My average for herford bull over brahman cows is less than 80 lbs.
Never tried brahman over herford.
I have not seen a large diference between bull and heifer calves. Although I don,t weigh the F1s. they look pretty close to me.

Weaning weights vary depending on bull/cow combo. Anywhere from 500 to 700 lbs. on F1s, and 500 to 600 lbs on strait brahman.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I have been talking to 2 different breeders that breed for the f1 tiger stripes. #1 breeder has hereford cows with brahman bulls. The 2 breeder has Brahman cows with hereford bulls. #2 breeder say's his heifers will make the bigger cows, because of the bigger brahman cows and the hereford bull. #1 breeder say's thats not true, it makes no difference. I know the hereford cows aren't near as big as the brahman cows, and the brahman bulls are taller than the hereford bulls. Whats everyones thoughts on the subject.

the brahman bull on the herf. cows is the cheapest route. and their running with a docile moma. which can make em somewhat less flighty and you only got one brahman to deal with - THE BULL-. you'r in north ala. like me we gon be in the mid 70's today and 29.degrees tomorrow night. brahman don't winter as well above the black belt.... now my personal preferance is brahman moma's they have excellent maternal instincts heavy milkers. but they will tear you a new one over those babies. and need to be handled a whole lot different then the hereford momas. but there -could- be a difference of 50 or less pnds at weaning on the herf moma's.