F1 Brahman

[Tailwinds Land & Cattle]

Being from Deep South TX, we chose F1 Brahman X Angus heifers and a few Santa Gertrudis heifers (just because) over Hereford Bulls when we got back into the cattle business after many decades of leasing out our land. Goal is a terminal herd. The F1's did not disappoint. Beautiful animals, hardy cattle and amazing moms. However, their calves were not exactly what we expected. Don't get me wrong, they are cute as heck but I suppose we expected mostly black baldies and maybe 1 out of 10 red. What we got was an array of colors. All baldies but about 25% grayish and tan with odd white marking on the body. The remainder are about 1/2 black and 1/2 red. On the other hand, the Santa Gertrudis heifers had drop dead gorgeous calves. All extremely uniform. The F1's we purchased were from commercial, albeit supposedly pure breed parents. They certainly look the part but I suppose unless you purchase those high dollar golden certified F1's you don't really know what you are getting.

So our new goal is to put the Herefords on the Santa Gertrudis to make some F1 Gerts and buy registered Angus Bulls to put on the F1 Brahmans. Should yield black calves? Plan is to sell all of those calves and keep heifer F1 gerts as replacements.

Thoughts? Am I over thinking this?

Thanks,

Bob

 

[Tailwinds Land & Cattle]

Being from Deep South TX, we chose F1 Brahman X Angus heifers and a few Santa Gertrudis heifers (just because) over Hereford Bulls when we got back into the cattle business after many decades of leasing out our land. Goal is a terminal herd. The F1's did not disappoint. Beautiful animals, hardy cattle and amazing moms. However, their calves were not exactly what we expected. Don't get me wrong, they are cute as heck but I suppose we expected mostly black baldies and maybe 1 out of 10 red. What we got was an array of colors. All baldies but about 25% grayish and tan with odd white marking on the body. The remainder are about 1/2 black and 1/2 red. On the other hand, the Santa Gertrudis heifers had drop dead gorgeous calves. All extremely uniform. The F1's we purchased were from commercial, albeit supposedly pure breed parents. They certainly look the part but I suppose unless you purchase those high dollar golden certified F1's you don't really know what you are getting.

So our new goal is to put the Herefords on the Santa Gertrudis to make some F1 Gerts and buy registered Angus Bulls to put on the F1 Brahmans. Should yield black calves? Plan is to sell all of those calves and keep heifer F1 gerts as replacements.

Thoughts? Am I over thinking this?

Thanks,

Bob

Examples:

 

[Brute 23]

I'm not big on a Hereford bull over black cows because they can bring out a lot more white, like you see, than what the market likes. I prefer a Black Bull over F1 Braford cows because it knocks the white back and keeps the mommas "red".

Do you have pics of the Gert x Herf calves? Do they have a lot of white?

You should not have to go to a golden certified animal to know what it is. If they sold them as F1s there should be nothing but Brahman and Black Angus going back. Some one smarter than me would have to confirm if you can get a red calf out of a true F1 Brangus, I never have. I thought the black would stay dominant.

 

[Brute 23]

Some of those will likely change colors on you some too so be ready. The bottom one for sure will, imo.

You probably want to add your location to your profile. It doesn't have to be exact but South Texas or deep STX or some thing like that. It saves you from receiving, and other from giving, advice that may not apply.

 

[Warren Allison]

If you used Brangus instead of the f1 Br x Angus, you'd get all polled, black baldies from the Herford bull. Or. if you used a Black Hereford bull, homo for polled and black on the cows you have now, you'd get all polled black baldies. If the Black Hereford bull is hetera for black, you'd get 75% black baldies.

 

[Brute 23]

There is no such thing as a Black Hereford south of Austin.

 

[redcowsrule33]

If that grey calf is pictured next to his mama, one of your Hereford bulls is probably a dilution carrier.

 

[Aussie27]

I would think that if at least some Red Brahman cows were used to make your F1 Black Brangus cows for you could get those results.
The Red gene is recessive and both parents require a copy of the red gene for the offspring to get the two red genes required for red coat color.

The New Goal crosses should give much more constant results. I would use only homozygous black bulls for the F1 Brangus cows as a Red gene carrier black Angus bull will give you a 25% chance of a red calf to cows that carry the Red gene.

 

[Travlr]

Examples:

You've got a box of crayons for sure.

If your goal is a terminal cross then you want consistency and you don't want your calves discounted for color. Period... full stop.

This means you need a homozygous black, homozygous polled, meat-making bull. That's the kind of bull that will produce the calves the feedlot buyers will pay the most for. Limousin would be my choice for the meat advantage. But you can find meaty Angus, Sim, or others. I'd stay away from a bull with any ear because you already have enough of that from your cows.

Pretty calves sell great to private buyers but the packers want meat. That's how they make their money.

 

[Tailwinds Land & Cattle]

I'm not big on a Hereford bull over black cows because they can bring out a lot more white, like you see, than what the market likes. I prefer a Black Bull over F1 Braford cows because it knocks the white back and keeps the mommas "red".

Do you have pics of the Gert x Herf calves? Do they have a lot of white?

You should not have to go to a golden certified animal to know what it is. If they sold them as F1s there should be nothing but Brahman and Black Angus going back. Some one smarter than me would have to confirm if you can get a red calf out of a true F1 Brangus, I never have. I thought the black would stay dominant.

You've got a box of crayons for sure.

If your goal is a terminal cross then you want consistency and you don't want your calves discounted for color. Period... full stop.

This means you need a homozygous black, homozygous polled, meat-making bull. That's the kind of bull that will produce the calves the feedlot buyers will pay the most for. Limousin would be my choice for the meat advantage. But you can find meaty Angus, Sim, or others. I'd stay away from a bull with any ear because you already have enough of that from your cows.

Pretty calves sell great to private buyers but the packers want meat. That's how they make their money.

Yep, I agree. Angus Bulls on the way!i

I would think that if at least some Red Brahman cows were used to make your F1 Black Brangus cows for you could get those results.
The Red gene is recessive and both parents require a copy of the red gene for the offspring to get the two red genes required for red coat color.

The New Goal crosses should give much more constant results. I would use only homozygous black bulls for the F1 Brangus cows as a Red gene carrier black Angus bull will give you a 25% chance of a red calf to cows that carry the Red gene.

yep, bulls coming are BB.

 

[Brute 23]

Those are good looking calves. I love that deep red.

That Hereford bull definitely throws a lot of white (chrome).

I have been eyeing some gerts for a long time. If I can mix them with my Brahman cattle then I can keep a Hereford on them for replacements. Raise them with the F1s.

 

[Tailwinds Land & Cattle]

If you used Brangus instead of the f1 Br x Angus, you'd get all polled, black baldies from the Herford bull. Or. if you used a Black Hereford bull, homo for polled and black on the cows you have now, you'd get all polled black baldies. If the Black Hereford bull is hetera for black, you'd get 75% black baldies.

I agree but we had our mind set on F1's. F1's just do so well down here.

 

[Brute 23]

How are the calves looking? Yall surviving this weather.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Being from Deep South TX, we chose F1 Brahman X Angus heifers and a few Santa Gertrudis heifers (just because) over Hereford Bulls when we got back into the cattle business after many decades of leasing out our land. Goal is a terminal herd. The F1's did not disappoint. Beautiful animals, hardy cattle and amazing moms. However, their calves were not exactly what we expected. Don't get me wrong, they are cute as heck but I suppose we expected mostly black baldies and maybe 1 out of 10 red. What we got was an array of colors. All baldies but about 25% grayish and tan with odd white marking on the body. The remainder are about 1/2 black and 1/2 red. On the other hand, the Santa Gertrudis heifers had drop dead gorgeous calves. All extremely uniform. The F1's we purchased were from commercial, albeit supposedly pure breed parents. They certainly look the part but I suppose unless you purchase those high dollar golden certified F1's you don't really know what you are getting.

So our new goal is to put the Herefords on the Santa Gertrudis to make some F1 Gerts and buy registered Angus Bulls to put on the F1 Brahmans. Should yield black calves? Plan is to sell all of those calves and keep heifer F1 gerts as replacements.

Thoughts? Am I over thinking this?

Thanks,

Bob

Hard to beat Angus over F-1 Brimmer the calves will mash the scales.
Gert Herf is a good cross as well and will yield mostly black or baldie calves.
You will get the occasional calf with a lot of chrome the SH color gene is strong. It seems to get unmasked in the 3 way cross more for some reason.