F-1's?

[brahma_show_girl]

We are thinking about taking some of our Brahman cows and breeding them to a Hereford bull in the next couple of years. After my show career is practically over. We want to keep the Tigerstripe F-1's I was wondering if we took the Tigerstripe heifers we get when we breed our Brahman's to the Hereford and bred them back to a Hereford wouldn't it eventually breed the Brahman influence out of there calves? I know a couple of people who take the Tigerstripe and breed them back to a Hereford. I think they are breeding the Brahman vigor out of there calves but I'm not a cattle expert. I'm just trying to learn as much about cattle as possible. So when I get out on my own I can be a successful rancher, vet, Extension Agent, or Ranch Manager. I was just wondering.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

We are thinking about taking some of our Brahman cows and breeding them to a Hereford bull in the next couple of years. After my show career is practically over. We want to keep the Tigerstripe F-1's I was wondering if we took the Tigerstripe heifers we get when we breed our Brahman's to the Hereford and bred them back to a Hereford wouldn't it eventually breed the Brahman influence out of there calves? I know a couple of people who take the Tigerstripe and breed them back to a Hereford. I think they are breeding the Brahman vigor out of there calves but I'm not a cattle expert. I'm just trying to learn as much about cattle as possible. So when I get out on my own I can be a successful rancher, vet, Extension Agent, or Ranch Manager. I was just wondering.[/quote........... :hat: you are maximizing the heterosis. with the third cross not necessarily breeding out the brahman influance but using it. but if your aint gonna keep the replacemant the best third cross is a outside source like a cont bull. my preferance is a simmental but charolais and others do great

 

[brahma_show_girl]

I don't want to sound stupid but what is heterosis?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I don't want to sound stupid but what is heterosis?

hybred vigor ..just the performance of a offspring. that comes when mate'in two different breed's that compliment each other. the animal is usually superior to the parents

 

[bigbull338]

thats a good idea if you want tigerstripes.they can an will raise some nicecalves.an theres a comm market for tigerstripe heifers.now the tigerstripes have a temper to go with them.you need to have a great set of corrals.yes you can run a hereford bull on the tigers.id rotate bulls on them.a hereford an then a brimmer.that way you keep the hybrid viger going in their calves.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

thats a good idea if you want tigerstripes.they can an will raise some nicecalves.an theres a comm market for tigerstripe heifers.now the tigerstripes have a temper to go with them.you need to have a great set of corrals.yes you can run a hereford bull on the tigers.

• >>id rotate bulls on them.a hereford an then a brimmer<<

.that way you keep the hybrid viger going in their calves.

you will wind up with a pile of eared poor doing bone's with that 3/4 brahman calf. and that is the direction you sure dont want to go. the F1 moma can not reproduce herself no matter how you try. stick with a three way rotation on the tigers and raise the F1'S off the brahman cows. its the proven route

 

[brahma_show_girl]

Yes I do agree. I do have a lot to learn, but I am realizing that I learn something new everyday. I have been showing Brahman's for 3 years and still need all the help I can get. I started with cattle not knowing anything at all. I lived in town and the only animals I had ever had were a couple of dogs and cats. But showing and raising cattle has taught me alot. Mainly resposibility, as most of you know cattle don't wait. I have realized that this Board and the people on it offer a wealth of information. Thanks!

 

[brahma_show_girl]

Oh and since we are talking about me needing to learn somethings. I was wondering if someone could explain EPD's to me. I know it stands for Expect Progeny Difference but I don't understand how it works. I know BW stands for Birth Weight but what does the +2.29 mean? I just need a general explanation. Thanks!

 

[MShaffer]

Ok, another newbie question...

What is an F-1?

 

[bigbull338]

F1 is first cross.thats what F1 means.hope this helps you.

 

[East Caney]

Ok, another newbie question...

What is an F-1?

An F-1 is a first generation cross between two breeds. Two of the most common are Angus/Hereford crosses and Hereford/Brahman crosses. Many others are gaining in popularity.

Oh and since we are talking about me needing to learn somethings. I was wondering if someone could explain EPD's to me. I know it stands for Expect Progeny Difference but I don't understand how it works. I know BW stands for Birth Weight but what does the +2.29 mean? I just need a general explanation. Thanks!

The numbers, such as 2.29, represent pounds. It allows you to compare and contrast animals within a given breed. Example, a Beefmaster bull with a WW of 12 (given all other variables are equal) would be expected to sire a calf that is 12 lbs heavier at weaning than a Beefmaster bull with a WW of 0. Keep in mind that this is not the individual animal's performance, but the expected difference in the animals progeny (calves). EPDs are usually a good way of recognizing animals who have more calving ease, growth, milking ability, etc. Don't forget the "E" in EPD, "expected". Things don't always go as one would expect.

Hope I helped answer your questions.

 

[brahma_show_girl]

Thanks everyone. For all the input it has really helped. Ecspecially the info on the EPD's. I just have one more question do you suggest getting EPD's on all your Bull Calves and if so how would you go about getting them.

 

[Frankie]

Thanks everyone. For all the input it has really helped. Ecspecially the info on the EPD's. I just have one more question do you suggest getting EPD's on all your Bull Calves and if so how would you go about getting them.

Here's a link to the Angus Assn's explantion of EPDs: http://www.angus.org/sireeval/howto.html

Simply put, if you breed a bull with a BW EPD of 3 to a set of cows, you'd EXPECT the calves to weigh 3 more pounds at birth than if you bred those same cows to a bull with a BW EPD of 0. Calves sired by a bull with a WW of 35 would be EXPECTED to weigh 35 more pounds at weaning than if they were sired by a bull with a WW EPD of 0. Same with yearing weights. Each breed has their own EPDs and shouldn't be compared to each other directly. An Angus bull with a BW EPD of 3 is not the equivalent of a Char bull with a BW EPD of 3. EPDs will never tell you what something will weigh, they just allow you to compare breeding stock.

Breed associations create EPDs. You'd need to contact your breed association and ask how to get EPDs on your animals. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions. There are people here who are willing to help.

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

thats a good idea if you want tigerstripes.they can an will raise some nicecalves.an theres a comm market for tigerstripe heifers.now the tigerstripes have a temper to go with them.you need to have a great set of corrals.yes you can run a hereford bull on the tigers.

• >>id rotate bulls on them.a hereford an then a brimmer<<

.that way you keep the hybrid viger going in their calves.

you will wind up with a pile of eared poor doing bone's with that 3/4 brahman calf. and that is the direction you sure dont want to go. the F1 moma can not reproduce herself no matter how you try. stick with a three way rotation on the tigers and raise the F1'S off the brahman cows. its the proven route

I agree completely with alacowman...we raise F-1s and the 2nd cross needs to be a continental at best or an angus at worst. We are looking at the red devon next year to cross with our tigerstripes which would be new for us.

 

[gerardplauche]

I think they are breeding the Brahman vigor out of there calves but I'm not a cattle expert. I'm just trying to learn as much about cattle as possible.

You will lessen the Brahman intensity, but I think you will defintely still see Brahman traits in second generation calves; most likely ears, lean rump, and maybe some of the temperment. I would be anxious to see how they turn out. Good luck.

 

[Ryder]

Ok, another newbie question...

What is an F-1?

You take two parents, call them the parental generation.
The off spring they produce is called the First Filial generation, or the F1 generation.
If the two parents are of the same breed, the offspring would be the F1 generation and straighbred.

If the two parents are of different breeds, then the offspring would be the F1 generation , and they would also be crossbred. Thus, F1 crossbreds.

 

[TexasBred]

Sounds a whole lot like my family tree. :shock: