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Anonymous
The same as F-1. The results of breeding two different breeds. The addition of the term "true" may be a slap at someone that is selling cattle as F-1's that are from mixed lineage. Just a thought
dun
> I HAVE NOTICED ADVERTISING OF F-1
> OR TRUE F-1 CATTLE. WHAT IS TRUE
> F-1?
dun
> I HAVE NOTICED ADVERTISING OF F-1
> OR TRUE F-1 CATTLE. WHAT IS TRUE
> F-1?
OP
OP
Anonymous
> The same as F-1. The results of
> breeding two different breeds. The
> addition of the term
> "true" may be a slap at
> someone that is selling cattle as
> F-1's that are from mixed lineage.
> Just a thought
> dun
Then F-1 is referring to two different breeds of 1/2 and 1/2. Would it matter if the makeup was 3/4 and 1/4 or 5/8 and 3/8. Would it still be considered F-1.
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> breeding two different breeds. The
> addition of the term
> "true" may be a slap at
> someone that is selling cattle as
> F-1's that are from mixed lineage.
> Just a thought
> dun
Then F-1 is referring to two different breeds of 1/2 and 1/2. Would it matter if the makeup was 3/4 and 1/4 or 5/8 and 3/8. Would it still be considered F-1.
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OP
OP
Anonymous
That's were it gets kind of arbitrary. Some folks consider half Brangus (3/8 Brahman, 5/8 Angus) half Hereford to be an F1. I don't because you only have half Hereford, 3/16 Brahman and 5/16 Angus. That is if I remebered how to work fractions correctly.
dun
> Then F-1 is referring to two
> different breeds of 1/2 and 1/2.
> Would it matter if the makeup was
> 3/4 and 1/4 or 5/8 and 3/8. Would
> it still be considered F-1.
[email protected]
dun
> Then F-1 is referring to two
> different breeds of 1/2 and 1/2.
> Would it matter if the makeup was
> 3/4 and 1/4 or 5/8 and 3/8. Would
> it still be considered F-1.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
> That's were it gets kind of
> arbitrary. Some folks consider
> half Brangus (3/8 Brahman, 5/8
> Angus) half Hereford to be an F1.
> I don't because you only have half
> Hereford, 3/16 Brahman and 5/16
> Angus. That is if I remebered how
> to work fractions correctly.
> dun
I have some cows that are 5/8 Simmental and 3/8 Angus. They are bred to a full blooded Angus bull. Their calves would be considered F-1. Am I right about that.
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> arbitrary. Some folks consider
> half Brangus (3/8 Brahman, 5/8
> Angus) half Hereford to be an F1.
> I don't because you only have half
> Hereford, 3/16 Brahman and 5/16
> Angus. That is if I remebered how
> to work fractions correctly.
> dun
I have some cows that are 5/8 Simmental and 3/8 Angus. They are bred to a full blooded Angus bull. Their calves would be considered F-1. Am I right about that.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
5/16 Simmenthal 11/16 angus. Also, there are recombined decreases in heterosis when one of the existing breeds is bred back into the combination.
dun
> I have some cows that are 5/8
> Simmental and 3/8 Angus. They are
> bred to a full blooded Angus bull.
> Their calves would be considered
> F-1. Am I right about that.
[email protected]
dun
> I have some cows that are 5/8
> Simmental and 3/8 Angus. They are
> bred to a full blooded Angus bull.
> Their calves would be considered
> F-1. Am I right about that.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
> I have some cows that are 5/8
> Simmental and 3/8 Angus. They are
> bred to a full blooded Angus bull.
> Their calves would be considered
> F-1. Am I right about that.
I don't think you have it right yet. The resulting calves from your above described mating will be 5/16 Simmie and 11/16 Angus. I believe that just about everybody that uses the term F1 or "true F1" is referring to an animal that is the first generation cross of two purebreds, a 50/50 animal. For example a 100% Hereford crossed with a 100% Angus (the result of which is commonly referred to as a black baldie). Or a 100% Hereford crossed with a 100% Brahman (the result of which is commonly referred to in the Gulf Coast states as a "tigerstripe"). When you start crossing animals that are themselves crossbreds you simply have a "composite" that is not an F1 --- and many times indescriminate and/or poorly thought out crossing results in "trainwreck" cattle, so to speak.
Sometimes people refer to certain crossbred cattle incorrectly, to wit: a pure Brahman crossed with a pure Angus doesn't equal a "Brangus" (since a "true" Brangus is 3/8 Brahman and 5/8 Angus) but a lot of people see black and some ear or hump and immediately say Brangus. Then you can get into more academic issues, such as crossing a pure Angus with a pure Shorthorn ----many folks might refer to that as a Murray Grey, but others would say hell no, since they are not descended from the very small original Australian gene pool out of which arose the MG animal; even though, as I recall, the original MG's essentially were 50/50 Shorthorn/Angus that resulted from mating one particular pure Shorthorn cow with 8 or 9 different pure Angus bulls ( or maybe the other way around?)
Probably more than you wanted, and I hope I have it right as to what I have written --- if not I trust that Dun or somebody else will correct me.
> Simmental and 3/8 Angus. They are
> bred to a full blooded Angus bull.
> Their calves would be considered
> F-1. Am I right about that.
I don't think you have it right yet. The resulting calves from your above described mating will be 5/16 Simmie and 11/16 Angus. I believe that just about everybody that uses the term F1 or "true F1" is referring to an animal that is the first generation cross of two purebreds, a 50/50 animal. For example a 100% Hereford crossed with a 100% Angus (the result of which is commonly referred to as a black baldie). Or a 100% Hereford crossed with a 100% Brahman (the result of which is commonly referred to in the Gulf Coast states as a "tigerstripe"). When you start crossing animals that are themselves crossbreds you simply have a "composite" that is not an F1 --- and many times indescriminate and/or poorly thought out crossing results in "trainwreck" cattle, so to speak.
Sometimes people refer to certain crossbred cattle incorrectly, to wit: a pure Brahman crossed with a pure Angus doesn't equal a "Brangus" (since a "true" Brangus is 3/8 Brahman and 5/8 Angus) but a lot of people see black and some ear or hump and immediately say Brangus. Then you can get into more academic issues, such as crossing a pure Angus with a pure Shorthorn ----many folks might refer to that as a Murray Grey, but others would say hell no, since they are not descended from the very small original Australian gene pool out of which arose the MG animal; even though, as I recall, the original MG's essentially were 50/50 Shorthorn/Angus that resulted from mating one particular pure Shorthorn cow with 8 or 9 different pure Angus bulls ( or maybe the other way around?)
Probably more than you wanted, and I hope I have it right as to what I have written --- if not I trust that Dun or somebody else will correct me.
OP
OP
Anonymous
> I don't think you have it right
> yet. The resulting calves from
> your above described mating will
> be 5/16 Simmie and 11/16 Angus. I
> believe that just about everybody
> that uses the term F1 or
> "true F1" is referring
> to an animal that is the first
> generation cross of two purebreds,
> a 50/50 animal. For example a 100%
> Hereford crossed with a 100% Angus
> (the result of which is commonly
> referred to as a black baldie). Or
> a 100% Hereford crossed with a
> 100% Brahman (the result of which
> is commonly referred to in the
> Gulf Coast states as a
> "tigerstripe"). When you
> start crossing animals that are
> themselves crossbreds you simply
> have a "composite" that
> is not an F1 --- and many times
> indescriminate and/or poorly
> thought out crossing results in
> "trainwreck" cattle, so
> to speak.
> Sometimes people refer to certain
> crossbred cattle incorrectly, to
> wit: a pure Brahman crossed with a
> pure Angus doesn't equal a
> "Brangus" (since a
> "true" Brangus is 3/8
> Brahman and 5/8 Angus) but a lot
> of people see black and some ear
> or hump and immediately say
> Brangus. Then you can get into
> more academic issues, such as
> crossing a pure Angus with a pure
> Shorthorn ----many folks might
> refer to that as a Murray Grey,
> but others would say hell no,
> since they are not descended from
> the very small original Australian
> gene pool out of which arose the
> MG animal; even though, as I
> recall, the original MG's
> essentially were 50/50
> Shorthorn/Angus that resulted from
> mating one particular pure
> Shorthorn cow with 8 or 9
> different pure Angus bulls ( or
> maybe the other way around?)
> Probably more than you wanted, and
> I hope I have it right as to what
> I have written --- if not I trust
> that Dun or somebody else will
> correct me.
You are correct.The original mating was between a particular roan shorthorn cow and various aberdeen angus bulls that always resulted in a "grey" calf.
[email protected]
> yet. The resulting calves from
> your above described mating will
> be 5/16 Simmie and 11/16 Angus. I
> believe that just about everybody
> that uses the term F1 or
> "true F1" is referring
> to an animal that is the first
> generation cross of two purebreds,
> a 50/50 animal. For example a 100%
> Hereford crossed with a 100% Angus
> (the result of which is commonly
> referred to as a black baldie). Or
> a 100% Hereford crossed with a
> 100% Brahman (the result of which
> is commonly referred to in the
> Gulf Coast states as a
> "tigerstripe"). When you
> start crossing animals that are
> themselves crossbreds you simply
> have a "composite" that
> is not an F1 --- and many times
> indescriminate and/or poorly
> thought out crossing results in
> "trainwreck" cattle, so
> to speak.
> Sometimes people refer to certain
> crossbred cattle incorrectly, to
> wit: a pure Brahman crossed with a
> pure Angus doesn't equal a
> "Brangus" (since a
> "true" Brangus is 3/8
> Brahman and 5/8 Angus) but a lot
> of people see black and some ear
> or hump and immediately say
> Brangus. Then you can get into
> more academic issues, such as
> crossing a pure Angus with a pure
> Shorthorn ----many folks might
> refer to that as a Murray Grey,
> but others would say hell no,
> since they are not descended from
> the very small original Australian
> gene pool out of which arose the
> MG animal; even though, as I
> recall, the original MG's
> essentially were 50/50
> Shorthorn/Angus that resulted from
> mating one particular pure
> Shorthorn cow with 8 or 9
> different pure Angus bulls ( or
> maybe the other way around?)
> Probably more than you wanted, and
> I hope I have it right as to what
> I have written --- if not I trust
> that Dun or somebody else will
> correct me.
You are correct.The original mating was between a particular roan shorthorn cow and various aberdeen angus bulls that always resulted in a "grey" calf.
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
two purebred or registered cattle mated. like dun said. the only reason brangus x hereford would be considered because brangus is a breed and can be registered so they make super baldies. but if used a brahman or angus it would not be a F-1 because it is the same as what is in them.
> I HAVE NOTICED ADVERTISING OF F-1
> OR TRUE F-1 CATTLE. WHAT IS TRUE
> F-1?
[email protected]
> I HAVE NOTICED ADVERTISING OF F-1
> OR TRUE F-1 CATTLE. WHAT IS TRUE
> F-1?
[email protected]
OP
OP
Anonymous
> two purebred or registered cattle
> mated. like dun said. the only
> reason brangus x hereford would be
> considered because brangus is a
> breed and can be registered so
> they make super baldies. but if
> used a brahman or angus it would
> not be a F-1 because it is the
> same as what is in them.
Right, an F1 is the first cross between two different breeds. To get Brangus from pure Angus and pure Brahman it requires three crosses. Purebred Angus bred to Purebred Brahman or Zebu enrolled with the IBBA is the first cross. Then breed the IBBA Certified 1/2 Blood (F1) to an enrolled Purebred Angus to get a Certified 1/4 blood (1/4 refering to the amount of Brahman blood). Then breed the 1/4 blood back to a different 1/2 blood (F1) to get a Brangus. A shorter method is to breed a Certified 3/4 Brahman to an enrolled Purbred Angus and get a Brangus (3/8 B and 5/8 A).
By the way, all F1 Brahman crosses in the south are not Tigar Strip, only those with brindling are considered Tigar Stripped. Also all Tigar Stripped cattle are not necessarly F1. Tigar Stripped cattle are considered outstanding commercial mother cows and are highly sought after.
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> mated. like dun said. the only
> reason brangus x hereford would be
> considered because brangus is a
> breed and can be registered so
> they make super baldies. but if
> used a brahman or angus it would
> not be a F-1 because it is the
> same as what is in them.
Right, an F1 is the first cross between two different breeds. To get Brangus from pure Angus and pure Brahman it requires three crosses. Purebred Angus bred to Purebred Brahman or Zebu enrolled with the IBBA is the first cross. Then breed the IBBA Certified 1/2 Blood (F1) to an enrolled Purebred Angus to get a Certified 1/4 blood (1/4 refering to the amount of Brahman blood). Then breed the 1/4 blood back to a different 1/2 blood (F1) to get a Brangus. A shorter method is to breed a Certified 3/4 Brahman to an enrolled Purbred Angus and get a Brangus (3/8 B and 5/8 A).
By the way, all F1 Brahman crosses in the south are not Tigar Strip, only those with brindling are considered Tigar Stripped. Also all Tigar Stripped cattle are not necessarly F1. Tigar Stripped cattle are considered outstanding commercial mother cows and are highly sought after.
[email protected]
