F-1 Wagyu

[Dave]

Dave -- sorry for getting this thread down the wagyu rabbit hole

No big deal. I started it by posting picture of these fine critters

If a person is thinking about going with Wagyu they really need to find a herd of about 100 of them. Try to work them. Heck try to just move them through a gate. They have to be the most contrary cattle I have ever been around. I am talking about B's purebred cows not the F-1 calves. The stories.... the frustration they cause.....

 

[Rmc]

I still haven't gotten the #1 question answered...

Is ALL wagyu, ALL Japanese breed cattle, heavy marbling?

If you are so stuck on a specific answer then put some effort into finding the answer.
I don't think you will ever find any breed that ALL fit the traits that that breed is marketed for .
Are you looking to start buying wagyu to eat. If so find a Wagyu meet board or Facebook group to continue to nitpick the topic on.
As a producer a very single specific question doesn't mean to me .
The only thing that matters to me is will it make me money.
I am always amazed at how many cattle producers on here and elsewhere don't even eat beef.

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

So what your cows look like and what your neighbors think is more important than making a profit?
Kind of reminds me of a situation at a old job . Customers would come to me to ask can you get me 50 or 100 of this particular item.
I would find them and give them a price. Many of them would say get it . I became know as the person to go to for odd or hard to find items.
Many of my coworkers where freaking out about why I was ordering in this and that and what was the customer going to do with them.
Many response was if they want it and I can get it and sell it at a profit I will do so I don't give a what they want it for or do with it after it is paid for.

I want front pasture cows that perform and sell well. They are breeding back pasture (or leased pasture ) cows that take 30-36 months to make it to the butcher. Its at a premium price but what is that extra 16-18 months of time worth?

 

[Stickney94]

There are pretty much only black and red wagyu being used in North America. It sounds like the black are being used more often.

Only a limited number of wagyu carry the genetic predisposition to extreme marble, or to transfer their marbling ability to their offspring.

The vast majority of Wagyu cattle in the US are predisposed to increased marbling -- particularly in comparison to the broad US cattle herd. Crossing any of the battery of sires available via ORIgen/ABS for example with any cow in any breed is likely to increase marbling in the offspring -- perhaps substantially.

There has been real growth in Akuashi in the past five years -- Heartbrand I believe is the large operator in TX that is predominantly red (referenced earlier in the thread).

I wrote earlier -- know your market -- if wagyu doesn't work for your market/operation -- then don't give them another thought.

 

[Stickney94]

No big deal. I started it by posting picture of these fine critters

If a person is thinking about going with Wagyu they really need to find a herd of about 100 of them. Try to work them. Heck try to just move them through a gate. They have to be the most contrary cattle I have ever been around. I am talking about B's purebred cows not the F-1 calves. The stories.... the frustration they cause.....

Dave -- I concur with this assessment. Our angus are very docile and relatively intelligent. The wagyu aren't mean, but they are skittish and often rather dumb. Maybe their brains are too marbled as well

 

[Chubbychum]

If I ever went down that rathole I'd try some % Akaushi. They would have some market value if a fellow didn't get them all sold via direct marketing. Actually, some attractive type in the breed.

Don't do it! I made the mistake of AI'ing my Red Angus cows to some Heartbrand Akaushi and unfortunately got 14/17 pregnant with 10 heifers. Biggest mistake I've ever made in beef cattle. If I could sell steak for $100/lb I might break even on those ugly, inefficient things.

 

[Ebenezer]

Don't do it! I made the mistake of AI'ing my Red Angus cows to some Heartbrand Akaushi and unfortunately got 14/17 pregnant with 10 heifers. Biggest mistake I've ever made in beef cattle. If I could sell steak for $100/lb I might break even on those ugly, inefficient things.

Good to know. Thanks

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I "believe" there is a gene that they can test for and the bulls are either hetero or homo for the gene that predisposes them to marbling.
This is exactly what some of the Angus breeders are doing. They are chasing EPD's for marbling. Marbling is antagonistic to muscling. The more marbling you get, the less muscling you get.
But, no one has answered my questions. Mainly - does "that much marbling" make a better eating experience????
And the reason one poster was talking about the Jersey half blood vs the Wagyu half blood. Unless you are butchering all the females also, it DOES make a difference if you are going to breed to them as a cow if they have good milk traits.

 

[Dave]

I "believe" there is a gene that they can test for and the bulls are either hetero or homo for the gene that predisposes them to marbling.
This is exactly what some of the Angus breeders are doing. They are chasing EPD's for marbling. Marbling is antagonistic to muscling. The more marbling you get, the less muscling you get.
But, no one has answered my questions. Mainly - does "that much marbling" make a better eating experience????
And the reason one poster was talking about the Jersey half blood vs the Wagyu half blood. Unless you are butchering all the females also, it DOES make a difference if you are going to breed to them as a cow if they have good milk traits.

100% of B's F-1 calves are headed to the feedlot.

 

[Buck Randall]

No big deal. I started it by posting picture of these fine critters

If a person is thinking about going with Wagyu they really need to find a herd of about 100 of them. Try to work them. Heck try to just move them through a gate. They have to be the most contrary cattle I have ever been around. I am talking about B's purebred cows not the F-1 calves. The stories.... the frustration they cause.....

The first time I worked a herd of Wagyu cows I watched one do a complete barrel roll in the chute and thought, "I've never seen a cow do that before." I saw it several more times that day.

 

[Son of Butch]

Maybe their brains are too marbled as well

Unfortunately we've had a few f-1s that have fit that description, very skittish.

 

[Dave]

Neighbor was going on vacation. Hired a neighbor to feed for him while gone. This is mid winter. The cows have all been on the feed row for a couple months. So the first day he feeds the beef cows. No problem. Tractor pulling a trailer with the appropriate number of big bales. Pull into the field, put the tractor into low, step off and climb up on the trailer, and flake off hay as it slowly goes across the field. Gets to the Wagyu field. Pulls through the gate and starts driving out into the field. All the Wagyu cows run out the gate, down the road, take a few laps, and come back through the gate. He says, what cow doesn't follow the feed wagon especially mid winter with 6-8 inches of snow on the ground.

 

[dvcochran]

My SNL swears buy Wagyu but he doesn't even know how to change his oil. What Wagyu I've had in Japan was pretty tasteless and priced through the roof.

Agree. It is another of many bizarrely successful marketing campaigns.

 

[Hereford2]

I still haven't gotten the #1 question answered...

Is ALL wagyu, ALL Japanese breed cattle, heavy marbling?

I mean, with all this hype about wagyu and there being something like seven distinct breeds... do they ALL marble and do the bulls throw crossbred calves that marble?

Or is it just a popular fad and people are paying ridiculous prices for the name, wagyu, without really getting any kind of improved meat? Are ALL F1 calves heavy marbling meat or only a percentage... or none at all?

A friend of ours, put a wagyu bull on their cow's for 2 or 3 calving seasons, the F1 meat didn't taste like anything special, in fact it wasn't as good as some other beef breeds and dairy breeds I've had. Also they didn't grow worth anything and she didn't have a foothold in a niche market (someone sold her on the wagyu are worth more) the Calves were sold as groups at the sale barn and they sold for $.68- $.70 the same price as the Holstein calves at the sale, the calves were half Angus half wagyu and half beef master half wagyu and they had horns... They looked like ugly black dairy calves, ...

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

We have been raising Wagyu for years. We just butchered our last Register Angus and have converted to only Wagyu.
We raise FB (full blood) Wagyu and also raise %, F1, F2 all the way to PB polled.
The FB is selling for $10 lb. (Processed)
F2 sell for $8lb.
(Processed)
The meat is incredible, excellent taste and texture.
We don't try to get to A5 / BMS 12.
BMS of 8 is our target. SCD is AA although we will cross with VA to gain size, milking or maternal.
Not trying to make mushy fat beef. ..Just a really great steak
We have been using Akaushi/Black genetics for years and are up to 880 average hanging weight.
These cattle are the most docile cattle I have ever worked. Very calm. It is just me and my wife that work the cattle and we're in our 60's.
Like everything else I think environment has a lot to do with behavior.

 

[Son of Butch]

A friend of ours (someone sold her on the wagyu are worth more) the Calves were sold as groups at the sale barn and they sold for $.68- $.70

Obviously they had no plan or reason other than to be the 1st kid on their block.

 

[Peace]

Obviously they had no plan or reason other than to be the 1st kid on their block.

This just floors me that somebody would actually take a project about 25% of the way to completion...why in the hell would you take waygu to a sale barn? that pains me to actually read it...it really does

 

[greybeard]

For the end consumer, there are4parts to buying beef, especially steak.
1. Cost/lb. (we'll ignore that..too many variables)
2. Marbling.
3. Tenderness.
4. Taste.

They aren't all 3 mutually inclusive and I sometimes think way too much emphasis has been placed on marbling at the expense of tenderness and taste. I've had some really well marbled steaks, that had poor or at least lacking taste and vice versa. Same with tenderness and it wasn't how they were prepared. The very last thing I want is an almost mushy steak, no matter how good it tastes.
I think we've somewhat lost our way in the taste vs tenderness vs marbling thing. I equate it like modern tomatoes compared to heirloom sun ripened home grown heirloom fruit of the same type.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@greybeard I totally agree!! Some breeders are chasing marbling at the detriment of their cattle structure/phenotype. How much marbling do we need?

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

This much...???
tonight's dinner
F2 Wagyu/Lowline.