F-1 Wagyu

[Dave]

The whole Wagyu topic has been kicked around here from time to time. Right now out in my field there is 185 calves. About a third of them are Wagyu cross F-1 calves. I told B that some of the Wagyu calves (his calves) looked like death warmed over. He said it is an acquired taste. I was out there patching some fence and took some pictures.
The first two are Wagyu calves. Not the best or the worst Wagyu calves just a couple that would stand for me. The white calf is the biggest calf out there. The yellow calf is my oldest calf born in late February. I guess he weighs 550. The last picture is the youngest calf. She was born in mid May. A heifer from a set of twins. We left both of them on the cow. She might weigh 300.
The calves are born in the same time frame. Mostly March with a few February and April calves. The Waygu were on better pasture. Dry range land but much better grass, water and flatter ground. The other calves summered on steep ground with lots of rock and juniper and a hike to water.

 

[Travlr]

The whole Wagyu topic has been kicked around here from time to time. Right now out in my field there is 185 calves. About a third of them are Wagyu cross F-1 calves. I told B that some of the Wagyu calves (his calves) looked like death warmed over. He said it is an acquired taste. I was out there patching some fence and took some pictures.
The first two are Wagyu calves. Not the best or the worst Wagyu calves just a couple that would stand for me. The white calf is the biggest calf out there. The yellow calf is my oldest calf born in late February. I guess he weighs 550. The last picture is the youngest calf. She was born in mid May. A heifer from a set of twins. We left both of them on the cow. She might weigh 300.
The calves are born in the same time frame. Mostly March with a few February and April calves. The Waygu were on better pasture. Dry range land but much better grass, water and flatter ground. The other calves summered on steep ground with lots of rock and juniper and a hike to water.View attachment 21124View attachment 21125View attachment 21126View attachment 21127View attachment 21128

Not a fan of wagyu...

From what I've been able to find out, "wa" means "Japanese"... and, "gyu" means "cattle". So anything that comes from Japan, any breed, can be called wagyu. There are something like six breeds of cattle from Japan. Black, brown, polled, shorthorn, kuchinoshima, and mishima. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information on the internet.

I doubt all Japanese cattle will carry the hyper-marbling genes. But then I can't seem to find much information that is attributed to breed specific marbling. All I find is that "Kobe" beef is high percentage fat and exceptionally well marbled... but no breed specified.

All I know is that there seems to be a lot of hype lately and not much delivery.

I suspect the hype is selling poor cattle much like people have been sold ostriches, rhea, miniature pigs/cows/horses, llama, and alpaca. Many promises of high returns without any real substance to the claims.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but I'll stick with cattle that have meat on them.

 

[shaz]

My SNL swears buy Wagyu but he doesn't even know how to change his oil. What Wagyu I've had in Japan was pretty tasteless and priced through the roof.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am definitely not a fan.
Someone needs to explain to me why anyone needs/wants more marbling than a Choice or Choice+ steak. I have been told they are soooo much more moist and tender. Well, if I had 2" of fat around my hunk of steak and white specks of marbling (fat) all through the meat, I would "assume" it would be moist. AGE has more of an effect on tenderness than any other one thing - to the best of my knowledge.
Why would anyone pay more money for a tiny steak? Why would anyone sacrifice all that muscling just so they could get more marbling? I understand the general "consumer" is gullible and likes to listen the latest and greatest FAD, so they are willing to pay way more than the meat is worth.
If my 1 cow can raise me a 700# calf at 7 months of age on grass and hay (and mineral), how could I justify breeding her so that she will be lucky to give me a 500# calf? What about the skinny arse heifers you end up with? Oh, yeah, I can use her as a breeding animal. WooHoo!
These are my thoughts. Please try to convince me I'm all wrong.

 

[shaz]

I am definitely not a fan.
Someone needs to explain to me why anyone needs/wants more marbling than a Choice or Choice+ steak. I have been told they are soooo much more moist and tender. Well, if I had 2" of fat around my hunk of steak and white specks of marbling (fat) all through the meat, I would "assume" it would be moist. AGE has more of an effect on tenderness than any other one thing - to the best of my knowledge.
Why would anyone pay more money for a tiny steak? Why would anyone sacrifice all that muscling just so they could get more marbling? I understand the general "consumer" is gullible and likes to listen the latest and greatest FAD, so they are willing to pay way more than the meat is worth.
If my 1 cow can raise me a 700# calf at 7 months of age on grass and hay (and mineral), how could I justify breeding her so that she will be lucky to give me a 500# calf? What about the skinny arse heifers you end up with? Oh, yeah, I can use her as a breeding animal. WooHoo!
These are my thoughts. Please try to convince me I'm all wrong.

Like my SNL, they've been told Wagyu is the best and therefore it is. Perception is reality unfortunately

 

[Ebenezer]

If I ever went down that rathole I'd try some % Akaushi. They would have some market value if a fellow didn't get them all sold via direct marketing. Actually, some attractive type in the breed.

 

[Travlr]

If I ever went down that rathole I'd try some % Akaushi. They would have some market value if a fellow didn't get them all sold via direct marketing. Actually, some attractive type in the breed.

Well that's another breed of wagyu, and one not listed when I was looking up Japanese breeds. But at least they have a rump. Makes me wonder if they are the source of marbled Kobe beef.

There's just too much bad information out there written by people that are less informed than I am... and I don't know enough to write anything with authority about Japanese breeds.

 

[wbvs58]

I think when people go out to a restaurant for a splurge they are prepared to pay for Wagyu to try it out and this is where the market for it is but for everyday meat the general public is very price conscious and more likely to buy Jeanne's good quality Simmental.
For the grower they have to be sure they have a well paid market for them to compensate for the lack of kilos. They are not something that you could do well with by just putting them through the salebarn and saying they are F1 Wagyu.

Ken

 

[Dave]

B was telling me about one of those lines. I don't remember the name he used. Said they are prized for the carcass traits. He said you better have the calves born in May or June. Because their ability to thrive is very limited. And cows from that same line are real poor mothers.
There is a company near here which owns a number of feedlots and their own kill plant. A big portion of their business is shipping beef to Japan. I was told by a bull hauler that one day of the week they kill nothing but Wagyu. Same outfit bought out nearly all the Wagyu bulls B had a while back. My thought is that they were supplying bulls to people to raise Wagyu for them.

 

[Dave]

I think when people go out to a restaurant for a splurge they are prepared to pay for Wagyu to try it out and this is where the market for it is but for everyday meat the general public is very price conscious and more likely to buy Jeanne's good quality Simmental.
For the grower they have to be sure they have a well paid market for them to compensate for the lack of kilos. They are not something that you could do well with by just putting them through the salebarn and saying they are F1 Wagyu.

Ken

I am certain that B has contacts into the Wagyu market. He has somewhere near 200 purebred Wagyu cows. I also had him tell me that, "one day this bubble will burst too." The only advantage is when that happens you can still sell them. I knew a guy who had several hundred alpacas. One day they were worth thousands of dollar each. Then you couldn't give them away.

 

[farmerjan]

They look worse than a jersey angus cross... and some of them have that "scrawney" look to them... only good thing is they at least don't look or act like they are gonna keel over...
My jersey and jersey cross beef marbles up just fine....

 

[Peace]

To be fair, people that eat them generally don't know what they look like alive and they probably don't care. They will however pay ridiculous money for the steaks and there are plenty of restaurants that serve the hamburger or advertise that's what they are and they're not shy about asking plenty of money for those either. So you can knock it all you want, but consumers are paying lots of money for it. It might be a fad, but there is money to be made in that fad.

 

[Travlr]

To be fair, people that eat them generally don't know what they look like alive and they probably don't care. They will however pay ridiculous money for the steaks and there are plenty of restaurants that serve the hamburger or advertise that's what they are and they're not shy about asking plenty of money for those either. So you can knock it all you want, but consumers are paying lots of money for it. It might be a fad, but there is money to be made in that fad.

Are you saying that EVERY breed of Japanese cattle marbles like Kobe beef?

 

[Peace]

Are you saying that EVERY breed of Japanese cattle marbles like Kobe beef?

Where did I type that? I didn't, what I'm saying is people are paying up for it. Kind of like all the bitching about how black cattle are getting better bids at the stockyards.

I will tell you this, I live in Moab and there is a restaurant that sells a Wagyu burger and fries for $18. The owner is a buddy of mine and he tells me he really can't get enough so he has the wait staff push the other items. That's what I'm telling you, it sells for more and people are willing to pay more for it.

 

[Stickney94]

As someone that raises purebred angus and F1/F2/PB Wagyu -- all of you are completely correct -- nothing to see here/no money to be made just keep doing what you are doing

 

[Travlr]

Where did I type that? I didn't, what I'm saying is people are paying up for it. Kind of like all the bitching about how black cattle are getting better bids at the stockyards.

I will tell you this, I live in Moab and there is a restaurant that sells a Wagyu burger and fries for $18. The owner is a buddy of mine and he tells me he really can't get enough so he has the wait staff push the other items. That's what I'm telling you, it sells for more and people are willing to pay more for it.

No... and I didn't say you did say that... I asked IF that was what you were saying.

I'm trying to figure out if wagyu is ALL marbled like Kobe and sold for high prices... or if people here in the States are buying wagyu thinking they are getting Kobe. The calves illustrated in the first post certainly don't look like anything exceptional, but how do we know without cutting them up?

In this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if it was common for people to sell unmarbled wagyu as Kobe... especially ground meat. Percentage wagyu or even any kind of beef with extra kidney fat thrown in might be a possibility too. Would end users like restaurants even know? I doubt it.

I'd just like to know what's going on. The internet has so much conflicting and non-specific information that I'm asking questions.

 

[Peace]

No... and I didn't say you did say that... I asked IF that was what you were saying.

I'm trying to figure out if wagyu is ALL marbled like Kobe and sold for high prices... or if people here in the States are buying wagyu thinking they are getting Kobe. The calves illustrated in the first post certainly don't look like anything exceptional, but how do we know without cutting them up?

In this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if it was common for people to sell unmarbled wagyu as Kobe... especially ground meat. Percentage wagyu or even any kind of beef with extra kidney fat thrown in might be a possibility too. Would end users like restaurants even know? I doubt it.

I'd just like to know what's going on. The internet has so much conflicting and non-specific information that I'm asking questions.

I'm sure people are buying it thinking it's Kobe, which it isn't as Japan has very strict export laws over it. It is probably crosses, just like Dave posted above. All I'm really trying to say is it's marketed very well, people are interested and spending their money on it, and the food or restaurant suppliers are supplying it as Waygu and the restaurants are advertising it as such. Now, I don't know if there are any scheisters adding kidney fat and double grinding other breeds to make it smoother, or triple grinding or whatever other scam they can run...that I just don't know. What I do know is that there are sales where those, as Murray states, noassatall bulls that are Waygu are sold for large amounts of money and bred to cows in the US. There probably are some measures taken place at the ethical slaughter houses to insure it's Waygu, but where there is easy money to be made you'll find scammers. I'm sure the non-specific info is on purpose, and it's probably because they don't really know for sure either.

 

[Stickney94]

I'm trying to figure out if wagyu is ALL marbled like Kobe and sold for high prices... or if people here in the States are buying wagyu thinking they are getting Kobe. The calves illustrated in the first post certainly don't look like anything exceptional, but how do we know without cutting them up?

Kobe beef is like Champagne/Parmigian and other geographic limited trademarks -- it is technically only Kobe if it comes from specific prefectures in Japan. Kobe is generally from black japanese cattle -- often virgin heifers -- but mainly it had to grade very high (Japanese A5 iirc) and be from specific areas in japan.

The VAST majority of "Wagyu" beef in the US are F1 crosses. And yes, you could argue the current fad is not different than CAB marketing/marketing 101.

Having said that -- and having harvested my own raised and fed F1/F2 carcassess -- well finished wagyu beef has qualities that are different than even well finished angus. I'm not saying every carcass is -- but the ones that are -- really are special.

But we raise purebred angus as well because we have customers that don't care for that much marbling.

 

[Travlr]

Kobe beef is like Champagne/Parmigian and other geographic limited trademarks -- it is technically only Kobe if it comes from specific prefectures in Japan. Kobe is generally from black japanese cattle -- often virgin heifers -- but mainly it had to grade very high (Japanese A5 iirc) and be from specific areas in japan.

The VAST majority of "Wagyu" beef in the US are F1 crosses. And yes, you could argue the current fad is not different than CAB marketing/marketing 101.

Having said that -- and having harvested my own raised and fed F1/F2 carcassess -- well finished wagyu beef has qualities that are different than even well finished angus. I'm not saying every carcass is -- but the ones that are -- really are special.

But we raise purebred angus as well because we have customers that don't care for that much marbling.

I asked this... "Is all wagyu beef heavily marbled?" of google... and got this, "Only 0.5% of Wagyu in Japan reaches a BMS of 12."

Which makes me think that people are raising an awful lot of scrawny, inefficient cattle to get that "0.5%" that marble extremely. Is this your own experience?

 

[SmokinM]

If I ever went down that rathole I'd try some % Akaushi. They would have some market value if a fellow didn't get them all sold via direct marketing. Actually, some attractive type in the breed.

Hauled some other cattle to a processor this morning for a guy that just bought 10 cows and 2 bulls. I didn't lay eyes on the cows but the bulls were not terrible once I found out what they were. When I first drove up my thought was " wow those are some pretty sorry limo bulls". He has big plans for them so we will see.