@gcreekrch ....Do you sink(Ai) your younger cows or use Lute 7 days before turning in bulls to get that tight of a window? I calve out 150Hd, start in mid January and finish 1 April. I've tried getting to 60 days before, but never fails to have 20 or so fall behind.
Extensive winter feeding
- Thread starter Rydero
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No shots. Bulls turn out July 3 when our summer grass is at optimum quality. Cows are cycling like crazy naturally. 6 bulls per 100 cows.
If I had to winter calve again I would get a job selling seed.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Would work as long as your heifers do not milk too much. Do you do anything special about breed or bull selection?
Haha, yeah winter calving isn't fun. But, I need to be done calving by 1 April that gives me 2 weeks before branding, and then turn out onto pasture 1 May. If I could shorten my calving window that would be a huge plus.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
The shorter your calving season - the longer time your heifers have to repair & start cycling BEFORE the bull is turned out. You only have 365 days. Longer you let them stretch out the calving season, the less chance the last stragglers will get re-bred.
Angus base reds and blacks. We have been shortening heifer dates for 15 years now and the shy breeders weed themselves early.
We still trade cows some but have learned the type that likes to live here. Cows with mature weight over 1300 lbs don't stay long.
Starts by keeping a few more heifer calves than normal, select a time you want bulls in and pull them on that date. Sell the open heifers with no remorse.
Rydero
Well-known member
That's the key isn't it? Remorseless culling. I don't care what the trait is if you want less of it get rid of the cows that have it. I don't care why a cow doesn't work at my place - if she can't hack it or comes open she's gone. If she looks at my wife or kids wrong - she's gone. Suprise, surprise I'm left with a herd that meets my objectives and fits my production system.
Silver
Well-known member
One thing I've learned is that my favorite cows are not always my best cows. If I only keep the best cows things look after themselves. Around here they need to calve in their assigned window and produce the pounds of calf I require in the timeframe they have to work with. I think that's why such a high percentage of our cows calve in the first cycle. Not many cows that calve at the end of the calving window produce steers that make the heavy pen.
Yours is a pretty tight window too isnt it?
Very good tips! And as someone mentioned, favorite cows aren't normally the best. I have been toying with the idea of bringing all heifers in and giving lute and then 7days later turn in the bulls for 45 days to tighten things up. My neighbor does it and has been having good luck. Less trips though the chute compared to the traditional AI process.
Better yet, do away with the artificial props and let your heifers decide who wants to stay...... We started at 42 days and have cut back to 30. Made about 5% difference. 26 open heifers out of 130 this year.
Pretty good! Do you preg at 90 days to see who stays or goes or are you using Ultrasound and doing at 60 days?
I did them myself by arm at 60 days this year and had a vet check the ones we sent to the sale. First time doing that many. Had two bred that I called open and three open that I called bred that cycled later and were rechecked by the vet when we tested cow herd.
Most years we use a vet for all but the heifers didn't fit his schedule this year.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Yes - I keep a 60 day window - but I AI 100%. Plan to use a clean up bull next year, one that I raised, showed and sold. Gonna breed AI 42 days, then turn bull out for 21 - will extend it to 63 days. I have two 60 day seasons - spring & fall. So, yes, I will let a cow slide into the next season - IF - and only if she has never screwed up or has any strikes against her. Not bragging, but I really don't have a cull cow in my herd. I hit them hard ALL THE TIME. Feet, udders, temperament, timely calving, etc. My cows are pretty good fertile myrtles - 50 years of culling for fertility.
@C-Ranch - not sure of your thinking. If you Lut (and they have been cycling) then they should all cycle BEFORE you turn the bull out 7 days later?????
Well in talking with my neighbor the idea of giving them Lute on day 0 is to get them cycling. Then on day 7 he turns the bulls in. He does it on all his 2nd and 3rd Calvers. He AI's all first Calvers. I haven't tried it myself, so can't speak on experience.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Lute will NOT get them cycling. Lute (PG) will get an animal to come into standing heat if and only if she is already cycling AND is in the proper "window" to respond to the shot. PG will only work on cattle that have a Corpus Leutium (CL). Cattle develop a usable CL about 5-7 days after a standing heat. On a normal cycle, the cow will sluff her CL about 2-5 days prior to standing. So, a cow only has a usable CL for about 14 days.
If the cattle are in good shape and are within that 14 day +/- carrying a CL, they will respond to the shot, they will all cycle during your 7 day wait prior to the bull, then nothing will come into heat for about 2 weeks with the bull doing nothing for those 2 weeks. I could understand if you gave the shot, AI bred everything that responded, then turn bull in on day 7 to clean up. Seems like a waste of $$ on shots. Not sure if your neighbor understands PG shots.
If the cattle are in good shape and are within that 14 day +/- carrying a CL, they will respond to the shot, they will all cycle during your 7 day wait prior to the bull, then nothing will come into heat for about 2 weeks with the bull doing nothing for those 2 weeks. I could understand if you gave the shot, AI bred everything that responded, then turn bull in on day 7 to clean up. Seems like a waste of $$ on shots. Not sure if your neighbor understands PG shots.
That I don't know. They guy who got him started doing that was who ever he AI's and buys his Semen through. Not sure the whole details since I'm hearing it second hand, but thought it may be a good way to tighten my calving period. Your much more knowledgeable in this area than me. Here's a link to an article about it, but I'm sure there is more to it than that. But again I need to talk with his AI person and my Vet before I'd actually try it. I'm not about throwing $$$ away.
Simple Synchronization of Cows - One Injection, One Time through the Chute, and Bull Breed
Have you wanted to have more calves born earlier in your calving season, but did not want to deal with the increase in labor, cost and facilities to utilize estrus synchronization and artificial insemination? The protocol shown (Figure 1.) can increase the number of cows coming into estrus...
