Explosion in West,tx fertilizer plant

[Kathie in Thorp]

The owner/operator's of that plant will be lucky if they don't end up sitting in Huntsville on murder conviction's.
They are in deep crap. There is going to be a list of violations as long as your arm.
There is OSHA 1910 violation's along, Homeland Security ,Texas Railroad Commison and TCEQ.
How that plant stayed below the line of sight and not filed proper document's will come out now.

From what I've read, CB, they had to self-report to OSHA/others about their inventory, operation, etc. And since what they self-reported didn't show violations in the operation, there had been no inspections for a long time. But they weren't doing accurate reports . . .

 

[TexasBred]

The owner/operator's of that plant will be lucky if they don't end up sitting in Huntsville on murder conviction's.
They are in deep crap. There is going to be a list of violations as long as your arm.
There is OSHA 1910 violation's along, Homeland Security ,Texas Railroad Commison and TCEQ.
How that plant stayed below the line of sight and not filed proper document's will come out now.

Fox showed a document today where they had something like 275 tons of ammonia nitrate on hand. I think this was an inspection by state folks. Only comments on the paper were no further action necessary. Surely they've been in compliance. Texas Pawpaw lives there and probably knows the volume of fertilizer they sell. I'd think they probably receive several semi loads of ammonia nitrate a week if not more. This place has been here for a long time and is inspected often.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The owner/operator's of that plant will be lucky if they don't end up sitting in Huntsville on murder conviction's.
They are in deep crap. There is going to be a list of violations as long as your arm.
There is OSHA 1910 violation's along, Homeland Security ,Texas Railroad Commison and TCEQ.
How that plant stayed below the line of sight and not filed proper document's will come out now.

Fox showed a document today where they had something like 275 tons of ammonia nitrate on hand. I think this was an inspection by state folks. Only comments on the paper were no further action necessary. Surely they've been in compliance. Texas Pawpaw lives there and probably knows the volume of fertilizer they sell. I'd think they probably receive several semi loads of ammonia nitrate a week if not more. This place has been here for a long time and is inspected often.

TB you confuse me you defend the action's of authorities that chase a suspect of killing 3 and injuring 100's.
Yet you defend an operation that killed 15 and injured 100's. There is a consquence for action or lack of action.
The plant's last inspection was 1985 no way no how were they in complaince. I know the reg's changed like crazy after 9/11. Homeland Security didn't even know the plant exsisted.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/0 ... ?mobile=nc

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 9N20130420

 

[greybeard]

Unless I misread the article in today's Houston Chronicle, they were not required to report to homeland security--only to the state--which they did. HS has the job of inspecting places that store ammonia nitrate, but their reaction was that they were unaware it was being stored there, and they relied on the State to inform them. Sounds like the state regulatory agency dropped the ball--I forget which agency they said it was..

 

[Caustic Burno]

Unless I misread the article in today's Houston Chronicle, they were not required to report to homeland security--only to the state--which they did. HS has the job of inspecting places that store ammonia nitrate, but their reaction was that they were unaware it was being stored there, and they relied on the State to inform them. Sounds like the state regulatory agency dropped the ball--I forget which agency they said it was..

GB I am not going to argue the point without a reg book in front of me I am almost sure that you had to report above certain quanties under the terrorism act to HS. Not all material would fall under the terrorism act. I know of no excemption of reporting to one and not the other. Ignorance is no defense, I had a team of environmental lawyers to reference on the ever changing and updating reg's.
Ammonia, diesel, propane etc would fall under EPA,TECQ,and OSHA reg's.

 

[greybeard]

I dunno--not my area of knowlege really.
Here's the Hou Chron article:
http://www.chron.com/default/article/Sc ... 450243.php

 

[Caustic Burno]

According to this article the plant has a history of violation's.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/04/18 ... rd-of.html

 

[greybeard]

Most do--some worse than others.

 

[TexasBred]

TB you confuse me you defend the action's of authorities that chase a suspect of killing 3 and injuring 100's.
Yet you defend an operation that killed 15 and injured 100's. There is a consquence for action or lack of action.
The plant's last inspection was 1985 no way no how were they in complaince. I know the reg's changed like crazy after 9/11. Homeland Security didn't even know the plant exsisted.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/0 ... ?mobile=nc

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 9N20130420

CB I'll take your word for what you posted. I certainly don't live there and don't have any of the facts. Only what I posted that I saw on TV. You know much more about the properties of ammonia nitrate than I do but someone (maybe you) commented on what happens to it with the right conditions plus the addition of water. I'm just hoping that possibly they were in complete compliance and the explosion was a combination of circumstances, ie; ammonia nitrate, fire and water. I find it hard to believe that Homeland Security was unaware of this plant as it was there long before Homeland Security existed. It's not like they've been hiding. Maybe HS dropped the ball. :idea: :idea:

BTW CB the authorities I defended were searching for a terrorist who had knowingly and willingly committed an act of terror. I dno't think the owner of the fertilizer plant blew it up on purpose. :!: :!: :!: A wee bit of difference, but I'm sure if they issue a warrant for his arrest he would probably drive himself to the jail.

 

[greybeard]

I saw an interview with a HS spokesman this morning. He stated ignorance of facts and law on the part of the plant operator is no excuse, then turned right around and stated they themselves would have inspected IF, they knew the plant existed and stored nitrates there. They can track and find bad guys all across the globe, but can't keep up with a legal and licensed facility that has been there and doing business, paying taxes, hiring employees, and advertising for 50 years? Sure sounds like they are trying to claim ignorance on their part IS an excuse. Ya can't have it both ways.

TB you confuse me you defend the action's of authorities that chase a suspect of killing 3 and injuring 100's.
Yet you defend an operation that killed 15 and injured 100's. There is a consquence for action or lack of action.
The plant's last inspection was 1985 no way no how were they in complaince. I know the reg's changed like crazy after 9/11. Homeland Security didn't even know the plant exsisted.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/0 ... ?mobile=nc

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... 9N20130420

CB I'll take your word for what you posted. I certainly don't live there and don't have any of the facts. Only what I posted that I saw on TV. You know much more about the properties of ammonia nitrate than I do but someone (maybe you) commented on what happens to it with the right conditions plus the addition of water. I'm just hoping that possibly they were in complete compliance and the explosion was a combination of circumstances, ie; ammonia nitrate, fire and water. I find it hard to believe that Homeland Security was unaware of this plant as it was there long before Homeland Security existed. It's not like they've been hiding. Maybe HS dropped the ball. :idea: :idea:

BTW CB the authorities I defended were searching for a terrorist who had knowingly and willingly committed an act of terror. I dno't think the owner of the fertilizer plant blew it up on purpose. :!: :!: :!: A wee bit of difference, but I'm sure if they issue a warrant for his arrest he would probably drive himself to the jail.

 

[Caustic Burno]

GB I knew ignorance was no defense.
I had that pounded into my head and if I didn't want to go to jail along with my superiors
we had better be in compliance. Now with that said you can have the best safety system's and training will not stop some employee's from violating policy. These are the ones that get people hurt and walk away like the drunk driver.

 

[snake67]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

 

[1982vett]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

Why?.....It's only Texas..

 

[Ryder]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

I bet that will sure make things a lot better----politically.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

I bet that will sure make things a lot better----politically.

dont reckon it'll turn Texas into a blue state :cowboy:

 

[TexasBred]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

Bez all I'm hearing is that he's going to appear at Baylor in Waco 15 miles down the road. Knowing Baylor as being fairly liberal it's probably going to be a fundraiser and photo-op only. I called the feed mill in West this morning and noone there knew anything about him being there. It would not be friendly territory for him.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Baylor is liberal now? My how the times have changed.

 

[snake67]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

Forgive me - I forgot that sarcaasm is not easily displayed when in print

I admit I might be wrong - but - I believe the Prez has a very low opinion of Texas as a whole.

Which is why I had my tongue deeply embedded in my cheek when I wrote this.

My best

Bez

 

[Caustic Burno]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

Forgive me - I forgot that sarcaasm is not easily displayed when in print

I admit I might be wrong - but - I believe the Prez has a very low opinion of Texas as a whole.

Which is why I had my tongue deeply embedded in my cheek when I wrote this.

My best

Bez

The feeling is mutual as a majority of Texan's would rather have a dose of :clap: than him visiting the state.

 

[TexasBred]

I think the Prez is supposed to be in Texas - soon or possibly all ready - is he planning to visit?

Seems like this one is a big enough deal to warrant a drop-in.

Best to all

Bez

Forgive me - I forgot that sarcaasm is not easily displayed when in print

I admit I might be wrong - but - I believe the Prez has a very low opinion of Texas as a whole.

Which is why I had my tongue deeply embedded in my cheek when I wrote this.

My best

Bez

The feeling is mutual as a majority of Texan's would rather have a dose of :clap: than him visiting the state.

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :clap: :clap: :clap: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: