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we had a hereford show steer once that we had to get the electric prod out. and even then he enjoyed it. they are very stubborn but very loyal. dragging is not a good thing for a hereford. they seem to rarely run away anyway. one technique i used to use is to get a 5ft piece of chain and clip it around their neck so they cant get it off. tie or clip a LONG piece of rope to the end of the chain. using an animals triangle of sight, you can teach an animal to walk on, stop and walk back. when you walk them forward, say walk on. and when you want them to stop, say woah. or what ever words you want. see my amazingly drawn diagram.

los.jpg


also, at the same time the animal will get more comfortable with you and you can go from there to using a halter.

but
*make sure you wear gloves, in case he runs
*do it in a smallish yard.
 
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. As far as the dragging behind a tractor i thought that was mean and would never do it but until you have one that will not walk foward at all just look at you, it frustrates you to no end so you try anything. We are being calm and letting her be the one who wants to lead by making her the last one out of the barn at night or no water until she leads to the tank. So far it has worked but she still will not go any where extra, like the wash rack. So we will keep taking our time. I like the idea about standing to the side like the last post said we are trying that too. Again thanks for all the help, to me this is the reason for this forum board and i hope others will get as much help from it as we did!! :clap: :D
 
AAOK":33b8ite5 said:
Cattle are Not smart animals, but ARE creatures of habit. Slow, calm, easy movement, plus reward will ALWAYS produce the BEST results.

Put a rope halter on her, and tie her down, with enough slack so that she can get up and down. Leave her tied for 24 hours without food or water.

Set a bucket of water, and a pail of feed about 10 feet away. Get her up, pet, scratch, and brush her, all the while talking to her. Then, untie her, and slowly (one inch at a time, if necessary) lead her to the food and water.

Tie her down after finishing, and repeat this at every feeding until she is leading the way you want. Keep moving the Feed and Water further away. This time is also great to work with the showstick, and setup.

Be patient, and be kind. You will reap what you sow. There is NEVER a proper time to abuse an animal, or anything else for that matter.



this is the best thing i have read through out this whole conversation!!!! seriously you don't have to make there feet bleed or drag them from a tractor... i trained this cow that had never ever been in a halter nore lead and she was five years old and pregnant with twins and this cow weighed over 1500 lbs. we tied her to a big bolder and let her fight the lead, until she decied it wasn't as bad as she had thought... then she draged me! and then we tied two long ropes to each side of her halter and had one person on each side of her she bulled us around a bit but when she realize nothing bad was going to happened she took one step at a time and she ended up sowing in the ring with her two calves like she had done it her whole life!!! good luck and i hope you find something that works for you!!!
 
The tractor is not a cruel option. AT ALL. it gets the animal used to noise and machinery too. but on a difficult animal, even that wont help. same with the food; unless you have an animal who is partial to feed (a show steer being fed up for example might not be lured so easily by food.) that method won't work. its hard enough trying to get some show steers to eat, let alone luring them with food. IMO each animal needs to be broken in differently. most of them will do it the normal way fine, but many, like a stubborn hereford or a cunning brahman, will test your creativity. maybe this is something you learn when you work across a heap of breeds. i know i had a maine anjou heifer once i got hold of and she'd obviously been beaten in the head, so i spent a while in her yard turned away with her fiddling with some hay. curiosity got the better of her and she came over. after i got her walking with the method i meantioned earlier i tied her up and bagged her head down till she realised that i wasnt going to hurt her and it wasnt that bad.

ultimately i guess you just have to get creative with your breaking in techniques, thats how all these gurus get their more obscure techniques anyway.
 
aussie_cowgirl":1enh5ksg said:
same with the food; unless you have an animal who is partial to feed (a show steer being fed up for example might not be lured so easily by food.) that method won't work.

Feed may not work as well -- BUT I assure you water will. Even if they won't eat, they have to drink!!
 
aussie_cowgirl":3e11jbs7 said:
The tractor is not a cruel option. AT ALL. it gets the animal used to noise and machinery too. but on a difficult animal, even that wont help. same with the food; unless you have an animal who is partial to feed (a show steer being fed up for example might not be lured so easily by food.) that method won't work. its hard enough trying to get some show steers to eat, let alone luring them with food. IMO each animal needs to be broken in differently. most of them will do it the normal way fine, but many, like a stubborn hereford or a cunning brahman, will test your creativity. maybe this is something you learn when you work across a heap of breeds. i know i had a maine anjou heifer once i got hold of and she'd obviously been beaten in the head, so i spent a while in her yard turned away with her fiddling with some hay. curiosity got the better of her and she came over. after i got her walking with the method i meantioned earlier i tied her up and bagged her head down till she realised that i wasnt going to hurt her and it wasnt that bad.

ultimately i guess you just have to get creative with your breaking in techniques, thats how all these gurus get their more obscure techniques anyway.

You are absolutely right aussie. (I seem to be writing that a lot lately). And the thing is you just have to learn to be flexible, be creative and importantly read the animal so you can try to figure out what might work for it. I came across a MG steer once that had one helluva handbrake, not even the tractor worked. And farmwife, this steer was tied up four days in a row with no water, even that didn't work for him. Funny thing was one day he just decided he'd up and walk. Good thing too, because I think that would have been the first animal I couldn't break.

But you're right about encountering these things once you've worked with many breeds and in large numbers. And to further illustrate the point about how each animal is different, I've had two steers that stick out in my memory which sound similar to your maine anjou heifer, which had both taken blows to the head and as a result were extremely aggressive. And I mean dangerous. But while yours responded to slow and gentle, one of mine, an ABC steer only responded when you had kicked him good and hard in the head. The other, an angus, didn't respond to a gentle touch or being whacked in the head. What got him was we had a normal halter on him, leading him, and a hackamore as well with the lead going above to a pulley on the rafters. As I led him and he got to a point where he charged me, a second person pulled his head up sharply with the hackamore/pulley system. Now thats what I call creative breaking in :shock:

The diagram you posted about the animal's flight zone is correct too - I just never though to mention it because I do it instinctively.
 
haha keren. must be an aussie thing. lol.

i had a greyman steer once who was the most cunning animal i have ever met. i had him in yards and it started with him seing me grab a lead rope. if he saw me get it, i couldnt catch him. next i tried to catch him, then get my ropes. that was fine, until he decided to just not be able to be caught ever :lol: he turned out ok though. bit of a kicker if people got to close. so it was always "watch his back legs. excuse me, just watch him, he kicks sometimes. hey hey, dont get to close." he was a lovely animal besides that.

yeah i found after a few animals you can kind of read how an animal needs to be broken in.

even now i get asked by some of the girls i tutored handling, breaking in and showing to about animals they are having issues with and things like that.
 
I completely disagree with TxSimbrahShower, sometimes a stubborn calf needs to be pulled around with a tractor. My wife and I had a shorthorn steer several years ago that just wouldn't calm down and lead. After a week of having the snot drug, beat, and pulled out of me we tied him to the three point of a Massey and drove around with him at a crawl for a couple of hours. He was broke to lead after three nights. It also helps when you tie the up to eat and drink. We will tie ours first thing in the morning, feed them, and leave them tied all day long with enough slack so they can lay down. My father-in-law made a "lead bar" for the Massey three point so my ten year old nephew can lead three or four calves at the same time.
 
Well all of you that pull with tractors, don't let your neighbors or passerbys see it. You'll be getting a visit from the Humane Society.

As far as our show cattle, we pay from $2000.00 to $5000.00 a piece for them and we're not going to run the risk of breaking a leg or crippling them. One rule, when you go to pick out a show animal, if it runs to the other end of the pasture away from humans, leave it in the pasture. We break with gentle and patience and 9 out of 10 of them are halter broke in 3 to 4 days after getting to our place. The other 1 usually takes 5 or 6 days.

In 10 years breaking 10 to 15 head a year, we have only had one heifer that we didn't break, really we didn't try, my husband went and got her, she should have never been brought home, the ranch used the calves to train their horses. Big mistake, she would try to fight through the fence, she took a ride back to the ranch were she came from.

But, everyone to their own ways.
 
we here in kansas we dont have some of the animal laws that other states have. i have spent 14 grand on a cow calf pair before and that didnt stop me from halter breakin the calf with a tractor.
 
if you keep an eye on the cow whilst dragging it you are fine. you always have someone behind the animal and next to the animal. so you have someone to tap it up if it starts to dig in its feet.

breaking with the tractor is a common practice in australia. and we have probably the most active animal welfare service in the world. you guys still allowed to dock and mulse sheep? lucky you. their banning it in a few years here.

its all got to do with being responsible and careful. just because you break 10-15 show cattle in 15 years doesnt mean you have everything right. ive seen long time showers do lots of things wrong. but, you have your own technique. if it works, keep doing it. people break cattle in their own way.
 
hahaha. yeah. it makes me angry too. i always day to people "if you are against muelsing, you can come help me spray the butts of lambs who have got maggots burrowed in them. and come shoot the ones that are paralysed because they have hit the spine"

i wish people would learn about the farming industry before they'd make a big scene out of something
 
At the risk of sounding like a total greenhorn..what is Muelsing? If it is related solely to the rearing of sheep, I will feel a little better. You Aussie's do thing's a little different, but you sure can raise some functional animals!
 
shortyjock89":2zba6o8o said:
At the risk of sounding like a total greenhorn..what is Muelsing? If it is related solely to the rearing of sheep, I will feel a little better. You Aussie's do thing's a little different, but you sure can raise some functional animals!

muelsing is where skin near the butt is cut off so it scars and becomes free from wool. a HIGHLY successful method of preventing fly blown. where blow flys lay their eggs in the dags and when they hatch they burrow into the animals flesh, often paralysing them because they burrow along the spine.
 
Aussie_Cowgirl is right, there is always someone walking beside or along the calves being lead by the tractor. Also the driver isn't just going to look forward and drive hoping the calves walk, we are conscious responsible cattle producers. Alot of people I know break their calves with a tractor and my in-laws live on a major highway with people passing all of the time. After living there for almost 25 years they haven't had anyone call the Humane Society for breaking their calves with a tractor. So is it also inhumane to use donkeys to break calves? According to Tx, what is the ONLY way to break calves? Some people have to work off of their ranches and farms these days and just don't have the time to break one at a time. What works for you works for you, but don't attack others who do it differently, even if you don't agree with their methods.
 
shortyjock89":1q044kz6 said:
At the risk of sounding like a total greenhorn..what is Muelsing? If it is related solely to the rearing of sheep, I will feel a little better. You Aussie's do thing's a little different, but you sure can raise some functional animals!

Don't worry, it is a sheep thing (whats a greenhorn?).

Mulesing is not a particularly pleasant operation but one which must be done. It involves the lamb being put into a marking cradle, or otherwise restrained, and the wrinkled skin from the breech is cut from the perianal region to the top of the hindlegs. The skin which is around the anus (and vulva in ewes) is pulled tight as the cut heals and results in a smooth area that does not get fouled by faeces or urine. The cuts are executed to avoid affecting underlying muscle tissue. Because the procedure removes skin, not any underlying flesh or structure, there is little blood loss from the cut other than a minor oozing on the edges of the cut skin. It is normally done in conjunction with marking (ie tagging, castrating, vaccinating and tail docking).

Merino lambs which do not get mulsed grow into sheep with extremely wrinkled breeches. These wrinkles trap moisture, urine and faeces, providing an ideal breeding ground for the blowfly Lucilia cuprina. The blowfly lays thousands of eggs, which hatch into maggots, which then burrow through the wool into the animal's flesh. The flesh is the primary source of food for the developing maggots. The irony is that once a sheep is flystruck, its flesh becomes even more attractive to other flies, so the sheep is a repeat victim of strike. The maggots will continue to feed on the animal's flesh, not only skin but other tissues. This leaves the sheep with gaping, necrotic wounds. They are susceptible to infections, and in many cases the animal dies of blood poisoning from the maggots or secondary infection. It is a slow, painful death.

Australian sheep farmers have come under attack recently by animal welfare groups, most noticable PETA, who consider mulesing a cruel and unneccesary practice. They have been so effective that traditional mulesing will be illegal in a few years time.

Some other alternatives are being researched and developed, but the thing is none of them are proving to be as effective as traditional methods. Some of the options are: a clip which acts similar to an elastrator band, and causes the dead skin to fall off in a few weeks; a protein injection which is designed to shrink the skin and thus eliminate wrinkles; pain relief sprays. Currently, I and many other sheep producers believe the only option showing promise is the pain relief sprays, which are used in conjuntion with traditional mulesing.

I had to laugh the other day reading an article in our state newpaper about the clips - 'studies have shown that lambs recover and are back on their feet suckling within 20 minutes of clip application'. What a joke! I have seen hundreds of lambs mulesed the traditional way and not one of them failed to walk straight over to its mother for a suck.

Animal welfare activists would like you to believe that we mules sheep because it is cheaper and easier than crutching or spraying sheep more regularly. The truth is that it is the only method that gives LIFETIME protection from flystrike.

Another line I liked from an article I happened upon on the internet a while ago was "The motto of the person doing the mutilation is that they are only sheep, so who gives a sh:t!"
I'm interested to know where this mentality comes from, that farmers couldn't care less about their animals and that they consequently treat them like crap. Thing is, we rely on those animals for our livelihood - logic dictates that we are going to take bl00dy good care of them. It makes no sense for farmers to mistreat their animals, as they rely on healthy, growing animals for their income.

Docking refers to cutting off the tail or using an elastrator band to remove it. Again, this prevents flystrike because the tail is a collection point for dags and urine, and thus attacks blowflies. This is another necessary practice that PETA has attacked, though thankfully not as violently as the mulesing issue.
 
That's Ok kinda enjoyable. While I'm here i will update. She is still not leading unless she is the last one in the barn then she will lead to the wash rack or even load on the trailer if others are on there. She even walked in the chute so i gave her a handful of calf manna! We are making progress slowly but it is progress! Again the responce has been great and the help too.
 

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