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EPD's

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xbred

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the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..
 

Cattleman200

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I think if you make common sense breeding decisions you can have both quality animals and a strong EPD package.

Circle H Ranch
 

RD-Sam

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xbred":237fmud2 said:
the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..

I think that is a pretty silly comment, as I see it, EPD's have nothing to do with genetic defects.
 

S&S Farms

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Had a friend tell me this last weekend I do not remember who actually said it but to paraphrase. EPD's were a good tool when used for breeding decisions. EPD's are not a good tool when used for marketing.

It kinda of goes in line with the ad mentioned before. EPD's need to be used as one part of the breeding equation not the only criteria.
 

dun

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talldog":siatv6ay said:
Common sense and good judgement, mixed with experience, are what it takes-Period :wave:
Sadly, it's too bad that common sense is so uncommon. But good judgement seems to be in short supply too.
 

Frankie

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xbred":2emwy0jf said:
the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..

Since EPDs don't have anything to do with genetic defects, I think I'd look very closely at his animal's EPDs before I bought one of them.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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RD-Sam":5nctds5o said:
xbred":5nctds5o said:
the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..

I think that is a pretty silly comment, as I see it, EPD's have nothing to do with genetic defects.
:clap: :clap: Absolutely correct.
 

FarmGirl10

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":39oz2dog said:
RD-Sam":39oz2dog said:
xbred":39oz2dog said:
the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..

I think that is a pretty silly comment, as I see it, EPD's have nothing to do with genetic defects.
:clap: :clap: Absolutely correct.
I would have to disagree with the two of you. If there are people out chasing EPDs (and its no secret that there are) people are to be linebreeding a little too closely and bringing any genetic defects to the surface. Do the EPDs themselves directly cause genetic defaults, no; but in my opinion, people chasing EPDs will cause the number of cases of these defects to rise.

There have been people on here in the past that were mad because they can't register calves out of known carriers without getting them tested. Because it wasn't their fault that the show heifer they bought carried the defect, so they shouldn't have to deal with it.
 

novaman

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FarmGirl10":3v77e71n said:
xbred":3v77e71n said:
the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..

I would have to disagree with the two of you. If there are people out chasing EPDs (and its no secret that there are) people are to be linebreeding a little too closely and bringing any genetic defects to the surface. Do the EPDs themselves directly cause genetic defaults, no; but in my opinion, people chasing EPDs will cause the number of cases of these defects to rise.

There have been people on here in the past that were mad because they can't register calves out of known carriers without getting them tested. Because it wasn't their fault that the show heifer they bought carried the defect, so they shouldn't have to deal with it.
We cannot assume that "chasing EPD's" is correlated to animals with genetic defects. That would be like assuming a black cow is Angus. In some cases you may be correct but in some cases you may not. With that said it sures sounds like this breeder doesn't have outstanding EPD's and is trying to cover that by implying genetic defects are not a problem in his herd. Further, I don't know many people that breed for EPD's. I do my breeding with EPD's.
 

dun

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Makes me curious who the "very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's " is!
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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No matter how important EPD's may be to some breeders - just because they are "chasing EPD's" does not mean that they have to be "linebreeding a little too closely". Linebreeding has nothing to do with EPD's directly. Sure, some people MAY linebreed for specific EPD's - but there is absolutely no reason to. There are plenty of genetics to pick & choose the EPD's you are looking for.
And, if anyone is CHASING EPD's, they are not breeders - they are multipliers.
 

whitecow

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talldog":17mw34s1 said:
dun":17mw34s1 said:
Makes me curious who the "very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's " is!
Very well said---- Do your homework !!! :) :)

Might try looking for a large Charolais breeder in MT....
 

bigag03

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If a person can read the EPD table, then they can read the pedigree as well (most of the time on the same sheet of paper). Linebreeding (or inbreeding), leading to increased prevalence of genetic defects has nothing to do with the EPD's.
 

RD-Sam

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FarmGirl10":111glsgg said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":111glsgg said:
xbred":111glsgg said:
the following is a quote from (IMO) a very very reliable and reputable seedstock breeder's advertisement in a breed magazine...."Breeding for EPDs instead of using common sense results in genetic defects coming to the forefront in many breeds. When developing your cattle program -think QUALITY, think....Breeder's name".
not trying to stir the pot, i would just like your comments on the quote..

I think that is a pretty silly comment, as I see it, EPD's have nothing to do with genetic defects.
:clap: :clap: Absolutely correct.
I would have to disagree with the two of you. If there are people out chasing EPDs (and its no secret that there are) people are to be linebreeding a little too closely and bringing any genetic defects to the surface. Do the EPDs themselves directly cause genetic defaults, no; but in my opinion, people chasing EPDs will cause the number of cases of these defects to rise.

There have been people on here in the past that were mad because they can't register calves out of known carriers without getting them tested. Because it wasn't their fault that the show heifer they bought carried the defect, so they shouldn't have to deal with it.[/quote]

Chasing EPD's do not cause defects, you can chase EPD's on lines or animals with no defects all you want and you won't cause defects by doing so. The defects come from breeding two carriers together, not breeding two of the same types of EPD's. You can weed out the diseases by culling the carriers from linebred animals, then you should be left with the traits you desire, without the disease. :nod:
 

Brandonm22

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In the most recent genetic defect debacle, stellar EPDs certainly played a role in the Precision catte gaining the popularity that they did; though the big reason they were popular is that they were less high strung than the EXT cattle and generally more pleasing to the eye than some of the New Design cattle (some New Designs can be a little "cat as*ed"). These same defects could just as easily have occurred in 036 or EXT or Traveler 23-4. For that matter, if you selected only sires with breed average or worse EPDs you would have just as much likelihood of getting a genetic defect. Linebreeding does not create genetic defects; but rather it exposes them. IF Precision had just been a flash in the pan bull...everybody uses him for two years then moves on to something else....the defects would still be in the bloodlines tracing back to him. We probably just would not be aware of it. It was the fact that he was so popular the made people keep going back to him which ultimately exposed both defects..
 

FarmGirl10

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RD-Sam":2agsy8vd said:
Chasing EPD's do not cause defects, you can chase EPD's on lines or animals with no defects all you want and you won't cause defects by doing so. The defects come from breeding two carriers together, not breeding two of the same types of EPD's. You can weed out the diseases by culling the carriers from linebred animals, then you should be left with the traits you desire, without the disease. :nod:
:oops: I should have proof read that before posting. I did not mean to say linebreeding/chasing EPDs caused genetic defects. I meant that it can cause genetic defects to "rise to the surface." I do not think that what that breeder was correct in what he was saying or atleast worded it very badly.
 

Frankie

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Brandonm22":2vlsetz6 said:
In the most recent genetic defect debacle, stellar EPDs certainly played a role in the Precision catte gaining the popularity that they did; though the big reason they were popular is that they were less high strung than the EXT cattle and generally more pleasing to the eye than some of the New Design cattle (some New Designs can be a little "cat as*ed"). These same defects could just as easily have occurred in 036 or EXT or Traveler 23-4. For that matter, if you selected only sires with breed average or worse EPDs you would have just as much likelihood of getting a genetic defect. Linebreeding does not create genetic defects; but rather it exposes them. IF Precision had just been a flash in the pan bull...everybody uses him for two years then moves on to something else....the defects would still be in the bloodlines tracing back to him. We probably just would not be aware of it. It was the fact that he was so popular the made people keep going back to him which ultimately exposed both defects..

I guess that depends on your definition of "stellar" EPDs. When we used 1680 as a youngster, his WW EPD was 28. It's now all the way up to 30. Plus a seriously bad Scrotal EPD of -1. There have always been bulls with much better EPDs than him.
 

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