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EPD's ????

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rusty

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I had a heifer born 2007 she was a commercial angus simmental mix.She was bred to a limmi bull with a 2.2 BW.Now I have had 2 calves born from this bull that weighed 60 65 lbs 1 angus cow 1 limi cow .The heifers calf went 85 lbs she prolapsed bleed out.

The question is was it the heifers simmental genes that made the calf so big?

Also have had 2 more 60 65 lb calves since from angus cows.

I hope this makes sence to you all and thanks for all help.
 

Aero

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you cant expect all the calves to be the same weight. generally, a heifer should be able to have a 85 lb calf; it might be a little work, but the problems you had are not the bull's fault.
 

Frankie

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rusty":ewjjz9dz said:
I had a heifer born 2007 she was a commercial angus simmental mix.She was bred to a limmi bull with a 2.2 BW.Now I have had 2 calves born from this bull that weighed 60 65 lbs 1 angus cow 1 limi cow .The heifers calf went 85 lbs she prolapsed bleed out.

The question is was it the heifers simmental genes that made the calf so big?

Also have had 2 more 60 65 lb calves since from angus cows.

I hope this makes sence to you all and thanks for all help.

EPDs won't ever tell you what a calf will weigh. They only tell you that if you breed your cows to bull with a higher BW EPD, you can expect the calves to weigh more than if they were sired by a bull with a smaller birthweight EPD. With crossbred cows, you're not likely to ever get much consistency.
 

Brandonm22

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The EPD is just the Expected Progeny Difference. The range of birth weight can be from ~49 - 118 lbs depending on the cow. A low birth weight bull just has more light ones than a high birth weight bull. There is still no way to guarantee that every heifer is going to have a 70 pound calf.
 
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rusty

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Thanks for the replys.That is pretty much what I came up with just wanted your alls opinions.I'd planned on using the same bull on my heifers next year(angus limis) and wanted to be sure.Thanks.
 

jcarkie

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i had a proven heifer bull, never pulled a calf from him. my bro-in-law used him and never had a problem. i bred im to a big brangus cross heifer and had to go to the vet to pull the calf, head swelled, contracted tendons, 4 a.m. delivery. calf was not that big, but her pelvis was smaller, it was her fault.
 

Brandonm22

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You also have to take breed into account. A +2.2 is a "moderate" sounding birth weight EPD; but in reality a Limousin with a +2.2 is the equivalent of an Angus with a +8.1 birth weight EPD - not generally what one considers a "heifer bull". The vast majority of Angus, Hereford, and Red Angus bulls should throw smaller calves than that Limousin bull does (according to expectations).

http://www.albcia.org/Across_Breed_EPD_Table.html
 
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rusty

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Brandomn 22,I wasn't aware that there was that much differance between the two breeds EPD's.Thanks for the info it will change my gameplan.
 

Red Bull Breeder

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I don't think Brandomn22 is quite right +2.2 is pretty light birth weight for a Limi. I don't know any thing about angus EPD's. I would and have bred heifers to heavier birth weight Limi bulls .
 

Brandonm22

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Red Bull Breeder":cquf6jn4 said:
I don't think Brandomn22 is quite right +2.2 is pretty light birth weight for a Limi. I don't know any thing about angus EPD's. I would and have bred heifers to heavier birth weight Limi bulls .

I don't vouch for the validity of the data. I honestly don't know how to test the data (if I had the money, the time, or the inclination to do so). I just report what Larry Cundiff has reported from the MARC. I got the table from Alabama Beef Cattle Improvement Association who got it from the Gelbvieh breed association. There MIGHT be a newer chart available.
http://www.albcia.org/Across_Breed_EPD_Table.html
A Limousin birth weight EPD of 0.0 is the equivalent of an Angus birth weight EPD of +5.9. Add +5.9 to the +2.2 Limousin birth weight EPD and we get an Angus equivalent birth weight EPD of +8.1 for this bull.
 
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rusty

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So far this bull has had 5 calves and only the one has been more than 65lb which I still believe was the simm in the heifer.By the way bottled the steer and he is doing well.I have two more to calve and i'll be done for the year.
 

Diehard40

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talking EPDs with such a cross bred herd is somewhat pointless, now if you were trying to compare two Limi bulls to use on them then it would be a different story.
Now like it has been said the 85 isn't out of the realm for a heifer to have a calf with no problem. Sounds like the heifers problem was with the prolapse, i've seen cows with small calves prolapse.

If trying to blame the Simm genetics for high BWs when using a Limi bull is grasping at straws IMO
 
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rusty

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I have 19 head reg angus ,reg limmis ,reg limflex 4 mixed that was the purpuse for the EPD ? .I do agree on the prolapse but thought it could be caused by calf size.I have two replacement heifers to breed 1 angus and 1 limmi and was planning on using clean up bull on them with the 2.2 BW.Still undecided on this but after I see the size of last 2 calves when they are born will help with that.If 6 out of 7 are small weight and frame i'll probably use him.The 1 heifer was the only with simm in her.
 

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