EPD's What Do They Mean?

[txag]

And as I said, SIMMENTAL have EPD's on ALL animals. I don't care if some are 1/2 bloods or purebreds or fullbloods, they have the capability to issue ACCURATE epd's on all of them.

do simmentals use whole herd reporting?

 

[Angus Guy]

I'm not bashing just asking a question. Has anybody looked at a Simmetal sale catalog lately?

 

[mtnman]

LOL, you guys are too much.

Over 50%, that's pretty good lakading. The guys I work with are over 90%, and that is with 3/4 Simmentals.

They haven't been below 60%, since they quit straightbreeding with Angus.

By the way, there dingaling, your breed is getting worse for CAB, not better. Yes, that's right as the AAA registers more and more animals every year, the CAB percent just goes down.

Too bad there aren't very many breeders over there that know why. I suppose you are one of those that thinks more marbling is the answer.

You just assume that no one else has any data.

Too funny, too funny.

Just assume that since you have seen a couple cows and they are Angus, you got it made.

mtnman

 

[mtnman]

Yes I have, most of those breeders aren't real worried about making them "look" good.

More interested in function.

They look better than most of the donors in the Angus Journal.

mtnman

 

[lakading]

LOL, you guys are too much.

Over 50%, that's pretty good lakading. The guys I work with are over 90%, and that is with 3/4 Simmentals.

They haven't been below 60%, since they quit straightbreeding with Angus.

By the way, there dingaling, your breed is getting worse for CAB, not better. Yes, that's right as the AAA registers more and more animals every year, the CAB percent just goes down.

Too bad there aren't very many breeders over there that know why. I suppose you are one of those that thinks more marbling is the answer.

You just assume that no one else has any data.

Too funny, too funny.

Just assume that since you have seen a couple cows and they are Angus, you got it made.

mtnman

Hey pal, ease up on the name calling. I made no mention of 50%. I said that if I were to get 2x more I would be over 100%.

Quit making assumptions and think about what I actually said for a minute. All that the statement implies is that I'm over 50%. The reason I didn't mention specifics is because someone will either call you a liar or say they're doing better than you no matter what number you put out there.

Let's just say that with the information that you mentioned, I still have no reason to crossbreed.

That said, I have nothing bad to say about other breeds. I just choose not to use them. If the guys you work with are having good success while crossbreeding, then I'm happy for them. After all, whether we admit it or not, we're ALL in the business of trying to supply what beef consumers demand. The customer is king!

Have a nice day.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm not bashing just asking a question. Has anybody looked at a Simmetal sale catalog lately?

Yes, can I help you on something?

do simmentals use whole herd reporting?

About 5 years ago they started a VOLUNTEER whole herd enrollment which I immediately joined, but had been total herd reporting for 35 years, as many other - but not all breeders had been doing.
Now, as of last year, it's different. You're testing my brain, so I had to get out the info sheet I got from ASA, since I have always reported everything, I don't know the new options.
OK, you have 3 options. Total Herd, pay to enroll every cow ($12), all registrations, transfers & EPD data free. Select Herd, every cow is enrolled but you pay for each individual registration at a higher cost, and you only get EPD's on registered calves. Third option is Non-TH - no cow enrollment, MUCH more expensive and only get EPD's on registered calf like Select Herd.
They have made it much easier on the producer to enroll EVERY COW.
I know there are several other breeds that have had Total Herd Enrollment for a number of years (Red Angus) what other breeds have it?

 

[El_Putzo]

I know there are several other breeds that have had Total Herd Enrollment for a number of years (Red Angus) what other breeds have it?

The American Hereford Association has offered a Total Performance Recording membership since Jan 1 2001. I'm not sure prior to then, what animals were eligible to have EPDS. As I understand it now, you can either be a TPR breeder, or a Pedigree breeder. Registrations cost the same for either type of member. Pedigree breeders pay a lower membership fee but don't recieve any EPDs on their cattle. TPR breeders, which I believe are the majority, pay a higher membership fee, plus a $10 per cow fee for herd inventory. TPR breeder do recieve EPDs on their cattle and they are updated twice a yr on the AHA website.

 

[dun]

I know there are several other breeds that have had Total Herd Enrollment for a number of years (Red Angus) what other breeds have it?

The American Hereford Association has offered a Total Performance Recording membership since Jan 1 2001. I'm not sure prior to then, what animals were eligible to have EPDS. As I understand it now, you can either be a TPR breeder, or a Pedigree breeder. Registrations cost the same for either type of member. Pedigree breeders pay a lower membership fee but don't recieve any EPDs on their cattle. TPR breeders, which I believe are the majority, pay a higher membership fee, plus a $10 per cow fee for herd inventory. TPR breeder do recieve EPDs on their cattle and they are updated twice a yr on the AHA website.

That's a volunteer type of deal so a lot of records are not going to be kept. The Red Angus association requires every cow and calf be reported or they're removed from the registry. Costs a lot of bucks to get a cow reinstated if you don;t report the data on her and her calf.

dun

 

[El_Putzo]

Correct, it is a volunteer program. AHA also has a large fee to re-enroll a female, if you've previously had her enroll, then took her off, then wanted to re-enroll her. I do agree with you Dun, it seems as the RAA has a pretty good system. I wish AHA had taken the same approach from the inception of EPDs. Of course, I wish the fees were a little lower too.

 

[Frankie]

I know there are several other breeds that have had Total Herd Enrollment for a number of years (Red Angus) what other breeds have it?

The American Hereford Association has offered a Total Performance Recording membership since Jan 1 2001. I'm not sure prior to then, what animals were eligible to have EPDS. As I understand it now, you can either be a TPR breeder, or a Pedigree breeder. Registrations cost the same for either type of member. Pedigree breeders pay a lower membership fee but don't recieve any EPDs on their cattle. TPR breeders, which I believe are the majority, pay a higher membership fee, plus a $10 per cow fee for herd inventory. TPR breeder do recieve EPDs on their cattle and they are updated twice a yr on the AHA website.

That's a volunteer type of deal so a lot of records are not going to be kept. The Red Angus association requires every cow and calf be reported or they're removed from the registry. Costs a lot of bucks to get a cow reinstated if you don;t report the data on her and her calf.
dun

But she can be reinstated. Can she be sold and the new owner has a year to report data?

 

[BRG]

She can be sold, but her next calf and the rest of her calves, dead or alive, dink or stud, has to be turned in. Or she will be taken off inventory.

 

[Frankie]

She can be sold, but her next calf and the rest of her calves, dead or alive, dink or stud, has to be turned in. Or she will be taken off inventory.

And can be put back on the inventory for a fee? Or sold again? What I'm understanding here (correct me if I'm wrong, please) is that, under the whole herd reporting concept, if I have a sorry cow that raises a dinky calf, I can sell the cow and not report the calf that year. She doesn't fall off the inventory and the new owner has another year to report a calf. Am I correct in my thinking so far? Then if he doesn't get the cow bred or like her calf, he can sell her again and not report a calf and the newest owner has another year to report a calf?

I haven't read the Red Angus rules, but this is my understanding of the THR program from reading other breed's info. I'm not bashing. I'm asking if I understand correctly. Thanks....

 

[BRG]

No not quite. Even if she raises a small calf and you sell her. That small calf still needs to be turned in. Or if for some reason you have to get her back on inventory, it will cost you, and you still have to report a calf to her on the years she was not on inventory. Otherwise she will never be let back in. It don't matter how many times she is sold or how many dead or small calves she has had. They all have to be turned in or she will never be allowed on your inventory.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Without going to the ASA site, that's how I understand it is for ASA. You can drop a cow from your herd, but in order to reinstate her, you have to pay for every year she wasn't turned in AND report each years progeny - or lack of.

 

[la4angus]

No not quite. Even if she raises a small calf and you sell her. That small calf still needs to be turned in. Or if for some reason you have to get her back on inventory, it will cost you, and you still have to report a calf to her on the years she was not on inventory. Otherwise she will never be let back in. It don't matter how many times she is sold or how many dead or small calves she has had. They all have to be turned in or she will never be allowed on your inventory.

A question I have is why would anyone want to have a cow in their inventory that raises that many small calves and dinks or deads. She needs to go to slaughter.

 

[BRG]

You wouldn't. It was just an example.

 

[Tod Dague]

She can be sold, but her next calf and the rest of her calves, dead or alive, dink or stud, has to be turned in. Or she will be taken off inventory.

And can be put back on the inventory for a fee? Or sold again? What I'm understanding here (correct me if I'm wrong, please) is that, under the whole herd reporting concept, if I have a sorry cow that raises a dinky calf, I can sell the cow and not report the calf that year. She doesn't fall off the inventory and the new owner has another year to report a calf. Am I correct in my thinking so far? Then if he doesn't get the cow bred or like her calf, he can sell her again and not report a calf and the newest owner has another year to report a calf?

I haven't read the Red Angus rules, but this is my understanding of the THR program from reading other breed's info. I'm not bashing. I'm asking if I understand correctly. Thanks....

The chance of a breeder will buy a cow that has been moved into the commercial herd and then start registering the calves is small. But if it does happen they do have that option.

You are required to report why you are removing the cow from the inventory, such as not breeding back or poor performance.

 

[rkaiser]

Bottom line with EPD's is that they are one more tool in a very large toolbox that a breeder uses to construct the ultimate beef animal.

Most EPD's deal with growth, and growth is relative to mature size.

We have gone from and average carcass weight of 611 pounds in 1975 to 834 pounds in 2005. The average cow carcass on the hook in Canada in 1992 was 606 pounds, 2005 was 663. Canfax figures.

One prominent Canadian breeder told us the other day that he has used EPD's to drop the mature size of his Charolais and Simmental herds by close to 200 pounds in 10 years.

Epd's have become a great sales tool for bull suppliers, but the buyer certainly needs to know his/her goals before being impressed with any numbers.

I personaly feel that something like Net Feed Efficiency has the potential to be far more important to our industry than growth and size. What about developing EPD's for Net Feed Efficiency, or equally important characteristics like carcass quality?

 

[Brandonm2]

One prominent Canadian breeder told us the other day that he has used EPD's to drop the mature size of his Charolais and Simmental herds by close to 200 pounds in 10 years.

I personaly feel that something like Net Feed Efficiency has the potential to be far more important to our industry than growth and size. What about developing EPD's for Net Feed Efficiency, or equally important characteristics like carcass quality?

I would like to see feed efficiency EPDs; but the problem is collecting the intake data. Not many breeders can assemble a feed pen full of 50 steers out of registered mamas ALL sired by the same bull. Pen data is virtually useless to breeders even if you meticulously weighed the bulls and the feed. Unless you are doing some kind of high tech performance test you can't collect individual feed intakes on anything other than a barned show calf. In a normal feedlot the animals all eat out of the same bunk so who knows how much an individual bull consumed? It would be extremely difficult to collect enough data to get a breed wide EPD for feed efficiency. It is a number we would all love to have; but I don't expect to see it any time soon.

Angus has a mature cow wt EPD and a mature cow ht EPD. That makes it possible to select for the bulls with the fastest gaining calves, without adding 500 lbs and two frame scores to your mature cow weights. I suspect it is just a matter of time before all breeds do the same.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Brandonm2 wrote:

Angus has a mature cow wt EPD and a mature cow ht EPD. That makes it possible to select for the bulls with the fastest gaining calves, without adding 500 lbs and two frame scores to your mature cow weights. I suspect it is just a matter of time before all breeds do the same.

The Simmental breed has had this for several years now.

rkaiser wrote:

I personaly feel that something like Net Feed Efficiency has the potential to be far more important to our industry than growth and size. What about developing EPD's for Net Feed Efficiency, or equally important characteristics like carcass quality?

Feed Efficiency is being measured as SOME bull tests (Pa. test is doing it). But it requires elaborate equipment.
I think pretty much all the breeds have Carcass EPD's. The Simmental assn. "has the largest structured-carcass-testing program (more than 30,000 females bred to date)".