EPD's are not the ONLY story!

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Nesikep":34y0zhsl said:
I know some of my cows throw big calves, and it doesn't matter what bull you breed them to... and would probably do the same with an ET calf as well.. From one family of cows, one side routinely throws the smallest BW's of the herd (~80lb), the other side throws the heaviest (~120+ lb).. neither side gives me any trouble so I don't worry about it.

I agree that calf shape makes a big difference in how they slip out.. Salers are among the most noodly calves.. fine heads and bones, and long

Here's a vid of one of my 140 lb thumpers being born.. Yeah, she was a big cow.. I wonder at what weight she'd start having calving problems... 200 lb? That calf's brother is Hector, a bull my friend has.. only had to pull one calf out of a tiny longhorn cow in 4 years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcnbPEmnRs

Bravo. Bravo. That is worth watching twice.
 
Here's that's guy's full brother from the next year, the bull at my friend's place.. I posted him before but I like the picture
20160913_083445sm.jpg

He may not have light birthweights, but if his heifer calves take after their grandma they might make pretty good cows
 
Some animals tend to be "Dominate" in what kind of offspring is thrown, either in good or weak traits, often over shadowing the other animal in the mating. That is what some people are hoping for when they line or inbreed, that they will get a good animal that will overshadow the genetics of a poorer animal in a breeding situation.
doesn't always work though, Some matings "nick" well and others don't.
I know of one fellow who bred his top milk cow with his best bull, and the result was a disaster with resulting cow giving 1 gallon a day...
 
Also, hard calvings can also sometimes have nothing to do with birth weight, but body shape, block heads and pigeon toed front ends,which tend to throw the shoulders out, and narrow pelvic structure in the female, or cows with lots of internal fat, can all result in stuck calves...
 
i bought a fancy expensive registered 'calving ease' bull .. he only ended up breeding 3 cows out of 80. and they all had 100 lb calves. these were cows who always had 65 lb calves. I heard each of those cows bawl when they pushed those heavy calves out.

that was a big waste of money. I just glance at EPD's since they are so easily manipulated.
 
cotton1":25o3kf11 said:
The friend I referenced about using the tape has a herd of cattle that are at least double bred, and more like quadruple bred to the same bull. His current herd sire is a son of that bull, and does not have EPDs that indicate easy calving. They are not bad but more like a 3 CE and 2 BW, just not what you would pick out of a semen directory to AI with. BUT, because he knows the cows and the sire and their gene pool is limited, he calfs heifers to that bull every year with no problem and has moderate birth weights.



Cotton1
i do the same thing. I have 4 generations all from the same bull. after buying and trying so many bulls.. only to be really dissapointed, I'm just sticking to my proven one. I have a couple of his sons that I'll be keeping as bulls to run. He'll throw a 65lb calf on a heifer.. I actually just had a 18 month old heifer deliver an amazing looking 60 lb calf who is growing at one of the fastest rates i've seen.
 
Nite Hawk":nximez2w said:
Some animals tend to be "Dominate" in what kind of offspring is thrown, either in good or weak traits, often over shadowing the other animal in the mating. That is what some people are hoping for when they line or inbreed, that they will get a good animal that will overshadow the genetics of a poorer animal in a breeding situation.
doesn't always work though, Some matings "nick" well and others don't.
I know of one fellow who bred his top milk cow with his best bull, and the result was a disaster with resulting cow giving 1 gallon a day...
Long time no see!

Yes, I've noticed certain matings 'nick' as well, and others fail miserably.. It would be really nice to know the mechanics behind it that cause it so that moving forward you have a better idea of what will work

A good example is my cow Caddy, who's raised many exceptional calves, especially those sired by the Gelbvieh bull I had.. Nice meaty steers and bull calves.. Bred her to a Limo and that bull calf was ugly as heck as he grew older.
Meanwhile Caddy's maternal sister raised what is probably the best looking steer I've ever had when bred to the same Limo bull!
 
Life has been/is often so busy I hardly see some pages on the computer any more...
Breeding is a gamble, so one uses every thing at ones disposal EPDs, and gut instinct, and saying a prayer if you will. some animals throw what they look like, and others look "ratty" but throw exceptional calves, and some are proponent and override the other animal(s) in the mating,
the problem is to know who and what crossed "nick" well, just as you said
 
While ratty builds might occasionally produce a flyer of a calf, that's a low probability way to try to improve a herd and one I'd advise against, primarily due to the long generational interval. The cost of being wrong on a bull can sure be a costly one.
 
That is very true that ratty looking animals usually do not produce excellent offspring,
and on top of that, they normally get butchered before they can produce anything,
however I do know of one Holstein bull from years and years ago who as a calf was totally ratty looking, yet produced an incredible line of milkers. His name escapes me, at this time, but he became very famous...
I personally wouldn't recommend breeding ratty looking animals. However if you look in the horse world, take a look at the Morgan horse, He was considered a runt-no good, yet was prepotent, and threw incredible colts..
It does happen, although it is a minority..
 

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