EPD

[HandB]

I understand the 1-5 scale as far as BW is concerned but when the BW number goes into the negative is that a good thing or a bad thing. I mean if you were looking for a good calving ease bull is a .5 better than a -.5 or -1.0?

 

[Jake]

negatives are better on the BW EPD but positives are better on the CED and CEM EPDs

 

[1848]

Unless your are talking Simi's or some other breeds. They have Positive #'s to indicate better BW.

 

[HandB]

thats what I thought. Hey 1848, what other breeds run the positives that way?

 

[Frankie]

I understand the 1-5 scale as far as BW is concerned but when the BW number goes into the negative is that a good thing or a bad thing. I mean if you were looking for a good calving ease bull is a .5 better than a -.5 or -1.0?

I think it depends on the breed. The American Angus Association recommends using bulls with BW EPDs of less than 3 on heifers. Personally, if the heifers are of Continental breeding or out of a herd with calving problems, I'd use a lower number than that. We have Angus heifers with EPDs and usually use bulls with BW EPDs in the 2-range with little or no problem. Some people claim if you use bulls with negative BW EPDs, keep the heifers and use another bull with a negative BW EPD, etc., you will eventually get yourself into calving problems. I don't know if that's true or not, but I don't think you necessarily need to use an Angus bull with a negative BW EPD to cut down on calving problems.

The Calving Ease EPD is a new Angus EPD. Several breeds have had it for quite a while. The higher number is better in that EPD.

 

[Wewild]

The Calving Ease EPD is a new Angus EPD. Several breeds have had it for quite a while. The higher number is better in that EPD.

We always used angus bulls or red polls on or Limi heifers. Sold them when they were to big for the heifers. Never kept the heifer's calves.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

A former Genex employee who worked for an Angus ranch for a while said that they selected on BW alone for so long that they were pulling a lot of 60 pound calves from heifers with small pelvic areas. They bred single trait selection for BW, while ignoring pelvic area.

 

[El_Putzo]

If your bull also has a good direct calving ease epd, wouldn't that offset the effects you are speaking of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CED directly coralate with pelvic size? I would think that as long as you bred for CE and low BW at the same time, you shouldn't have the "pulling a 60 lb calf" problem.

 

[Frankie]

If your bull also has a good direct calving ease epd, wouldn't that offset the effects you are speaking of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CED directly coralate with pelvic size? I would think that as long as you bred for CE and low BW at the same time, you shouldn't have the "pulling a 60 lb calf" problem.

I don't think Angus CE correlates to pelvic size. We have never reported any pelvic measuements to the Angus Assn. and I don't know anyone who does it on a regular basis. On the other hand, when a calf is born, we report calving info (no assistance, some assitance, mechanaical assistance, C-section)... I feel sure that's where the CE EPD is coming from in the Angus breed.

 

[Frankie]

A former Genex employee who worked for an Angus ranch for a while said that they selected on BW alone for so long that they were pulling a lot of 60 pound calves from heifers with small pelvic areas. They bred single trait selection for BW, while ignoring pelvic area.

We've been selecting heifer bulls for years by using BW (as opposed to CE) EPDs and have had very little calving difficulty. It's only this year the the Angus Assn came out with a CE EPD. But, except for the first AI sire we used, we didn't select extreme (negative BW) bulls for use on first calf heifers. I would imagine that we'll continue to use the BW EPD for calving ease, as long as it's available. It's worked for us.

 

[El_Putzo]

That's what I meant when I said "directly coralate". I meant that there is most likely a link between calving ease and pelvic size.

 

[dun]

Calving ease is one of those terms that each breed usues a little differently. CED in some breeds is the bulls calving ease, in others it's the bulls daugthers calving ease. That's where the confusion starts. If CED is calving ease DIRECT or calving ease DAUGHTERS, which is also called calving ease maternal or calving ease total maternal.
There are numerous bulls that have both good direct calving ease (his calves) and maternal calving ease (his daughters calving ease). The daughters calving ease is the one that would relate to pelvic size, and even if not reported as such, the daughters calving ease is at least an indication of pelvic size.
I think I explained that right.

dun

 

[HandB]

great job Dun, the mud is now clear. Thanks for the info

 

[dun]

great job Dun, the mud is now clear. Thanks for the info

After rereading it I think I may need it explained to me. I know what I meant, just not sure that was what I said

dun