epd question on ced and bw

[ugabulldog]

Looking at angus bulls,.... I am confused because some have high breed % ced numbers, so this is good for unassisted births, but are also high breed % on bw? This seems like a contradiction, if they are high % ced shouldn't that mean a low % on bw? I know there are other factors but shouldn't these two numbers usually be opposite with one high and one low, vs both high or low?

 

[Supa Dexta]

Calf shape plays a role, as well as producing heifers that can throw a bigger calf more easily.

 

[TCRanch]

One of my bulls (also Angus) has a high CED, BW averages 75 lbs but he's built long & lean with a narrower head. He throws nice calves that slide right out. The bull we recently retired threw an average 68 lbs with a high CED but they were short & stocky - still never pulled one of his calves. Studying the EPD's is great but they don't tell you anything about the build. I won't buy a bull I don't first see/observe in person.

 

[Son of Butch]

Looking at angus bulls,.... I am confused because some have high breed % ced numbers, so this is good for unassisted births, but are also high breed % on bw? This seems like a contradiction, if they are high % ced shouldn't that mean a low % on bw?
I know there are other factors but shouldn't these two numbers usually be opposite with one high and one low
vs both high or low?

Sure... generally ced 6 bw 1.1 are breed average 50 percentile
occasionally you may find a freak with ced 10 (25%) and bw 1.1 (50%)
or
ced 6 (50%) and bw -.1 (25%)

IF the accuracy is low, I would expect as more data comes in, the numbers will move to be more in balance

BUT identifying the ''freaks' with positive traits is how genetic progress is made and finding a 'freak' sire with both
+13 ced and + 1.0 bw is a rare good thing

 

[TCRanch]

Looking at angus bulls,.... I am confused because some have high breed % ced numbers, so this is good for unassisted births, but are also high breed % on bw? This seems like a contradiction, if they are high % ced shouldn't that mean a low % on bw?
I know there are other factors but shouldn't these two numbers usually be opposite with one high and one low
vs both high or low?

Sure... generally ced 6 bw 1.1 are breed average 50 percentile
occasionally you may find a freak with ced 10 (25%) and bw 1.1 (50%)
or
ced 6 (50%) and bw -.1 (25%)

IF the accuracy is low, I would expect as more data comes in, the numbers will move to be more in balance

BUT identifying the ''freaks' with positive traits is how genetic progress is made and finding a 'freak' sire with both
+13 ced and + 1.0 bw is a rare good thing

The one we retired (R.I.P., Chester!) was CED +12, BW +2.1. He did look a lot like a hippo is a freaky sort of way.

 

[Son of Butch]

Connealy Onward is 1 of only 6 freaks listed with minimum 13 ced and +1.5 bw also highest accuracy at .95

The biggest 'Freak' of the 6 is Zorzal ced 15 bw +3.4
breeder is listed in Argentina and the owner is listed in Canada
2 of his great grandsires were from the usa TC Stockman 365 from Nebraska and the other a Rito from Montana

surprising to me Zorzal is in the bottom 10% for ww yw all carcass traits and bottom 5% $B
so appears he doesn't bring much else to the table other than calving ease and top 2% $EN

 

[talltimber]

bulldog, the desirable direction of the bw is to go lower in weight. So the lower the percent number is the percent of the reporting animals that are the same or better than your epds, meaning the same or lower bw than you are looking at. The ced is the opposite. Higher ced is desirable, so the lower percent for it would indicate the same or higher ced than you are comparing.