EPD of Purebred Angus

[Trixie Club Calves]

I know nothing about EPD's and looking at getting a couple Registered Angus cattle. Just curious if anyone knows about EPD's

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

View attachment 51060I know nothing about EPD's and looking at getting a couple Registered Angus cattle. Just curious if anyone knows about EPD's View attachment 51058

View attachment 51059

There's two different cows, the pictures with the grey/white is one cow, and the other picture is the other cow. Not sure why they all mixed together

 

[Stickney94]

What is your goal?
These EPDs by themselves don't really say much. If you are raising for high carcass quality -- then these cattle's EPDs are below average. They may have good feet and may PAP well (I believe you are in elevation) so maybe that's your goal. Give us a bit more info.

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

What is your goal?
These EPDs by themselves don't really say much. If you are raising for high carcass quality -- then these cattle's EPDs are below average. They may have good feet and may PAP well (I believe you are in elevation) so maybe that's your goal. Give us a bit more info.

Yes I'm in high elevation, there from high elevation as well. I'll probably just use them to be raising Seed Stock.

 

[GoWyo]

First line is the EPD number, second line is the accuracy and third line is the percentile of the EPD number within the breed. So on calving ease direct (CED) the +4 is the EPD number, .24 is the accuracy (that is low which means not a lot of data to go on) and 65% is where the EPD number is within the breed. The 1 below that on the fourth line means she had one calf with data turned in as a first calf heifer. Bulls used A.I. will often have many calves on that line and the accuracy will be much higher.

 

[moses388]

Pictures with grey/white look like numbers from the Angus Association. The "Bolt_Genomic" numbers don't look familiar. Where did the "Bolt_Genomic" numbers come from?

 

[simme]

The "Bolt_Genomic" numbers appear to be from the simmental database. For a percentage simmental.
Probably looking to improve those angus with some heterosis.

 

[GoWyo]

The "Bolt_Genomic" numbers appear to be from the simmental database. For a percentage simmental.
Probably looking to improve those angus with some heterosis.

Well one is probably improving the other LOL

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

The "Bolt_Genomic" numbers appear to be from the simmental database. For a percentage simmental.
Probably looking to improve those angus with some heterosis.

She's purebred Angus

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

Pictures with grey/white look like numbers from the Angus Association. The "Bolt_Genomic" numbers don't look familiar. Where did the "Bolt_Genomic" numbers come from?

Not sure, she's a purebred angus and that's what I got sent for EPD

 

[simme]

She's purebred Angus

Then her tattoo number must be 46K. Birth date Jan 7, 2022?

Maternal grand dam P138S listed as a PB angus but has an undocumented/incomplete pedigree. Recorded as PB angus in the simmental database, but not in the AAA registry. Has dna enhanced epd's. Unusual.

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

Then her tattoo number must be 46K. Birth date Jan 7, 2022?

Maternal grand dam P138S listed as a PB angus but has an undocumented/incomplete pedigree. Recorded as PB angus in the simmental database, but not in the AAA registry. Has dna enhanced epd's. Unusual.

She was born in 2022, not sure what her tattoo is.

 

[GoWyo]

Her Angus EPDs say she has had BW recorded on 7 calves and weaning weights recorded on 6 calves. That would put her as a 9-year old cow. Or are the Angus EPDs from her dam?

 

[simme]

Simmental association record in pdf for the 2022 cow..

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

Her Angus EPDs say she has had BW recorded on 7 calves and weaning weights recorded on 6 calves. That would put her as a 9-year old cow. Or are the Angus EPDs from her dam?

The two I posted are 2 different cows.

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

Simmental association record in pdf for the 2022 cow..

So is she not a registered angus cow?

 

[simme]

So is she not a registered angus cow?

This will be a long explanation/speculation. Normally "registered angus cow" would mean a cow that is registered with the American Angus Association. With a complete pedigree showing the AAA registered ancestors going back many many generations to the beginning angus cattle. A search of the AAA database does not find an animal named "LHT MS ACE 46K".

Open the pdf file I attached. Click on the ASA number 4133164 in the upper left. That will take you to the ASA database listing for the cow. In the center, there is the word "pedigree" with a "-" and a "+" sign. Click multiple times on the "+" sign to expand the pedigree to include more generations.

Scroll to the bottom of the pedigree to the maternal grand dam "P138S". Click on her registration number 9663081 and you will get her ASA "papers". Born Feb 15, 2006. Entered into the simmental database in 2009 with an "owner", but no "breeder". No pedigree/ancestors on this cow. Click on "Progeny report" at the bottom. You will get a listing of all the calves from this P138S cow. She had 11 calves sired by various simmental or angus bulls.

On the list of progeny, click on her 2016 calf "LHT MS ANGUS VALLEY 44D". That takes you to "papers" on that calf. Click on "expanded report" at the bottom. The P138S cow was AI bred to SAV Angus Valley bull to produce the 44D cow. She had a 75# bw and a 672# ww and she produced the cow you are looking at.

Go back to the P138S cow. Click on "cow summary" at the bottom. This takes you to a page that has all the information about her calves. Birth dates, sires used, AI or natural, Birth weights, weaning weights, yearling weights, ultrasound scans, etc IF it was measured. This cow was culled in 2019 for "age" (code 62 on the cow summary). Lots of information on the ASA database on this old cow. 3 bull calves, 8 heifer calves, never used as a donor or recip, 369 day calving interval, 92 bw ratio, 102 ww ratio, 96 yw ratio, 111 IMF ratio, 119 BF ratio, 106 RE ratio on the calves. And more info there as well.

Back to the present - what does all that mean? I think P138S was a "commercial" angus that was never registered with AAA. Maybe due to extra white. Maybe due to an unknown sire. But she was a productive cow, has records of all calves, has (low accuracy) epd's based on breed and production records.
It would be a "little" misleading to refer to this 46K cow that you are looking at as a "registered angus" without an explanation that she is only recorded in the ASA database, not the AAA.

I looked up all this information on the simmental website. All open accessible information to anyone. Production records, weights, easy to navigate and search. No secrets. That is why I see the ASA as a progressive data driven association, not like most breed associations. It would be impossible for a non owner (or maybe even the owner) to find that information and data with any traditional breed association.

Just wondering - what is worth more to a cattle person: "papers" from a traditional association (and the largest one by far in the US) or tons of available data on the animal and progeny?

 

[Trixie Club Calves]

This will be a long explanation/speculation. Normally "registered angus cow" would mean a cow that is registered with the American Angus Association. With a complete pedigree showing the AAA registered ancestors going back many many generations to the beginning angus cattle. A search of the AAA database does not find an animal named "LHT MS ACE 46K".

Open the pdf file I attached. Click on the ASA number 4133164 in the upper left. That will take you to the ASA database listing for the cow. In the center, there is the word "pedigree" with a "-" and a "+" sign. Click multiple times on the "+" sign to expand the pedigree to include more generations.

Scroll to the bottom of the pedigree to the maternal grand dam "P138S". Click on her registration number 9663081 and you will get her ASA "papers". Born Feb 15, 2006. Entered into the simmental database in 2009 with an "owner", but no "breeder". No pedigree/ancestors on this cow. Click on "Progeny report" at the bottom. You will get a listing of all the calves from this P138S cow. She had 11 calves sired by various simmental or angus bulls.

On the list of progeny, click on her 2016 calf "LHT MS ANGUS VALLEY 44D". That takes you to "papers" on that calf. Click on "expanded report" at the bottom. The P138S cow was AI bred to SAV Angus Valley bull to produce the 44D cow. She had a 75# bw and a 672# ww and she produced the cow you are looking at.

Go back to the P138S cow. Click on "cow summary" at the bottom. This takes you to a page that has all the information about her calves. Birth dates, sires used, AI or natural, Birth weights, weaning weights, yearling weights, ultrasound scans, etc IF it was measured. This cow was culled in 2019 for "age" (code 62 on the cow summary). Lots of information on the ASA database on this old cow. 3 bull calves, 8 heifer calves, never used as a donor or recip, 369 day calving interval, 92 bw ratio, 102 ww ratio, 96 yw ratio, 111 IMF ratio, 119 BF ratio, 106 RE ratio on the calves. And more info there as well.

Back to the present - what does all that mean? I think P138S was a "commercial" angus that was never registered with AAA. Maybe due to extra white. Maybe due to an unknown sire. But she was a productive cow, has records of all calves, has (low accuracy) epd's based on breed and production records.
It would be a "little" misleading to refer to this 46K cow that you are looking at as a "registered angus" without an explanation that she is only recorded in the ASA database, not the AAA.

I looked up all this information on the simmental website. All open accessible information to anyone. Production records, weights, easy to navigate and search. No secrets. That is why I see the ASA as a progressive data driven association, not like most breed associations. It would be impossible for a non owner (or maybe even the owner) to find that information and data with any traditional breed association.

Just wondering - what is worth more to a cattle person: "papers" from a traditional association (and the largest one by far in the US) or tons of available data on the animal and progeny?

So she the place she came from is a Simmental ranch so she has a Simmental foundation number, but is Purebred angus. She will have an angus registration number.

 

[Stickney94]

This will be a long explanation/speculation. Normally "registered angus cow" would mean a cow that is registered with the American Angus Association. With a complete pedigree showing the AAA registered ancestors going back many many generations to the beginning angus cattle. A search of the AAA database does not find an animal named "LHT MS ACE 46K".
......

Just wondering - what is worth more to a cattle person: "papers" from a traditional association (and the largest one by far in the US) or tons of available data on the animal and progeny?

This is a great summary Simme. To the OP -- EPDs are complex and if you are interested in selling seedstock I'd recommend taking the time to educate yourself. Simme's excellent explanation is just a fraction of what is involved in understanding EPDs/pedigrees/breed associations. Another option might be to talk with a rancher like Simme (or Simme) -- but there are online videos and literature too.

I've been looking at EPDs for more than a decade and I'm still double checking and learning things on how they should be used as a tool.

 

[redcowsrule33]

So she the place she came from is a Simmental ranch so she has a Simmental foundation number, but is Purebred angus. She will have an angus registration number.

Not necessarily. They usually post the registration numbers from other associations under the Simmental one if they were provided or exist. You need to ask the breeder for her AAA number clear this up.