EPD Clueless - Guidance Needed

[mitchwi]

I am 90% certain we are going to go with AI(Angus) this summer and Lease for a clean-up bull.

This is how I'd like to choose my AI bulls, but don't know enough (read: ANYTHING) about reading the EPD's. Now, if I am wrong in my thinking, blast away...

What I have: 2005 heifers Angus/Gelbveih of various %

What I would like, most important first:

Calving ease for the heifers
Carcass Quality
Maternal Qualities(not sure this one should be hereGV%)
Growth Potential (Really nothing larger than frame score 6)
Structure/Soundness

I also want bloodlines that are known for great dispositions.

What am I doing? May keep out (some) heifers, remainder will be fed out by us. So when it comes to the $EPD's - total foreign language, please explain or better yet, give example. ;-)

And, if anyone were to recommend a bull by Accelerated Genetics, ABS, or Select Sires (most common around here) that fits the bill, I would be appreciative.

Please help me learn this stuff :shock:

 

[Frankie]

EPDs are a simple tool used to compare breeding animals of the same breed.

Simply put, you would expect the calves sired by a bull with a BW EPD of 5 to weigh five more pounds at birth than if those calves were sired by a bull with a 0 BW EPD. They'd weigh 30 more pounds at weaning if you used a bull with a 30 WW EPD instead of a bull with a 0 WW EPD. It works the same with all EPDS. You can use them to compare bulls or cows.

As for which bull to select, that's hard without looking at the cows, knowing anything about their pedigrees, what you will do with the calves, etc. How many heifers? Will you use one bull on everything? Who'll do your AI work?

IMO, the ABS bull Bon View New Design 878 is pretty hard to beat. The ones we've raised have had very good dispositions. Bull calves and heifers, they would be glad to be pets. They've been moderate framed so I have to be careful not to breed to a small cow. ABS shows him high in calving ease. I've seen some on test that performed very well. Across the board, if I had to choose one Angus bull, it might well be him. Maybe others can help you out.

If you have any more questions about EPDs, don't hesitate to post them on the board or PM me. There are some very good articles about them online, too. Good luck...

 

[T-Bone]

I am 90% certain we are going to go with AI(Angus) this summer and Lease for a clean-up bull.

This is how I'd like to choose my AI bulls, but don't know enough (read: ANYTHING) about reading the EPD's. Now, if I am wrong in my thinking, blast away...

What I have: 2005 heifers Angus/Gelbveih of various %

What I would like, most important first:

Calving ease for the heifers
Carcass Quality
Maternal Qualities(not sure this one should be hereGV%)
Growth Potential (Really nothing larger than frame score 6)
Structure/Soundness

I also want bloodlines that are known for great dispositions.

What am I doing? May keep out (some) heifers, remainder will be fed out by us. So when it comes to the $EPD's - total foreign language, please explain or better yet, give example. ;-)

And, if anyone were to recommend a bull by Accelerated Genetics, ABS, or Select Sires (most common around here) that fits the bill, I would be appreciative.

Please help me learn this stuff :shock:

Some good info to read.
http://www.herfnet.com/Genetics/epd_desc.htm

 

[dun]

Basin 79E on heifers, Messmer Judge on cows from ABS for the right Angus solution

dun

 

[T-Bone]

More good info......
http://www.southshadow.homestead.com/EPDs.html

 

[mitchwi]

As for which bull to select, that's hard without looking at the cows, knowing anything about their pedigrees, what you will do with the calves, etc. How many heifers? Will you use one bull on everything? Who'll do your AI work?

IMO, the ABS bull Bon View New Design 878 is pretty hard to beat. The ones we've raised have had very good dispositions. Bull calves and heifers, they would be glad to be pets. They've been moderate framed so I have to be careful not to breed to a small cow. ABS shows him high in calving ease. I've seen some on test that performed very well. Across the board, if I had to choose one Angus bull, it might well be him. Maybe others can help you out.

If you have any more questions about EPDs, don't hesitate to post them on the board or PM me. There are some very good articles about them online, too. Good luck...

Thanks Frankie, I'm on my way to understand the concept with 5BW being 5lbs heavier than average. I don't understand the $Values. Or, how to rule out perhaps one EPD in favor of another more appealing one, or which one is the better number. I'm probably not making sense here.....

Ok, I can look at 1 epd and understand it, but how do I put them all together for the big picture on one animal, or isn't that done?

Also, these are commercial animals, I don't have pedigrees for the females, and they are heifers, so I don't have any prior experience with them to help either. And you brought up another question with these variables in mind how do I pick a bull or a different bull for each one?

 

[mitchwi]

Basin 79E on heifers, Messmer Judge on cows from ABS for the right Angus solution

dun

Got any left ones Dun?

 

[mitchwi]

http://www.accelgen.com/beefsires/014AN00223.html
Ok, above is an example how I'd break it down.

CED 9
BW 3.3
But his actual BW was 90

And it looks like his data is based on actual reported versus PE.

So, with a CED of 9, one would think it is safe for heifers. But then I look at the other BW and his actual and I'm thinkin, not. But then I see he's got some numbers under his belt so maybe it'd be ok? HOW DO I KNOW??? Or, am I thinking wrong :?:

 

[Frankie]

www.accelgen.com/beefsires/014AN00223.html
Ok, above is an example how I'd break it down.

CED 9
BW 3.3
But his actual BW was 90

And it looks like his data is based on actual reported versus PE.

So, with a CED of 9, one would think it is safe for heifers. But then I look at the other BW and his actual and I'm thinkin, not. But then I see he's got some numbers under his belt so maybe it'd be ok? HOW DO I KNOW??? Or, am I thinking wrong :?:

First of all, you will never know for sure until feet are sticking out. Let me admit that I'm still watching BW EPDs for calving ease. I've never used him but I looked at New Frontier's pedigree and there are many calving ease bulls, 036 (one of my all time favorites), Dateline, Bando 155. His milk EPD is based on reports of over 400 daughters, so he's been used quite a bit. Overall, his EPDs look good. You might send Rishel an email and ask their opinion: http://www.rishelangus.com/ Did you talk to the Accelerated rep about him? He may know someone locally who's been using him.

We use mostly ABS bulls because they fill our tank and will bring semen, saving the shipping expense.

 

[Aero]

Calving ease for the heifers
Carcass Quality
Maternal Qualities(not sure this one should be hereGV%)
Growth Potential (Really nothing larger than frame score 6)
Structure/Soundness

i would say the carcass quality might be in the wrong place. many studies show that carcass quality is very low on the profitability scale (reproductive ability of females is usually no. 1), especially if you are going to retain any females. Carcass should probably be one of the last considerations. if you can get it and fix the problems, it will be an added bonus. dont make any mistakes for carcass though.

one of the most important things to selling the calves will be what people think when they first see them. mainly, this means good "eye-appeal" and structure, followed by growth (the weight they carry).

Calving Ease being most important is a very smart move. It's no. 1 on my list, no matter what.

 

[Aero]

What I have: 2005 heifers Angus/Gelbveih of various %

with the Gelbvieh influence, i wouldnt add any Milk level.

So when it comes to the $EPD's - total foreign language, please explain or better yet, give example. ;-)

which EPDs in particular do you understand or not understand? give me somewhere to start.

And, if anyone were to recommend a bull by Accelerated Genetics, ABS, or Select Sires (most common around here) that fits the bill, I would be appreciative.

Please help me learn this stuff :shock:

many people like BAR EXT Traveler 205 from Select Sires for his disposition, udder quality and eye-appeal. we use G A R Expectation 4915 and like everything he makes (semen is getting rare; he just died). we have used quite a bit of G A R Yield Grade and always have good, solid calves.

C A Future Direction 5321 fits the bill for most of everything you are looking for, but is sold through Genex.

how exactly will you sell the calves? as feeder calves? to a feedlot? feed them out yourself?

 

[Aero]

IMO, the ABS bull Bon View New Design 878 is pretty hard to beat. The ones we've raised have had very good dispositions. Bull calves and heifers, they would be glad to be pets. They've been moderate framed so I have to be careful not to breed to a small cow. ABS shows him high in calving ease. I've seen some on test that performed very well. Across the board, if I had to choose one Angus bull, it might well be him. Maybe others can help you out.

878 is a good solid bull. you wont have anything that WOWs the crowd, but he might be what you are looking for and is very proven.

 

[Aero]

CED 9
BW 3.3
But his actual BW was 90

breed average is +2.3 for BW EPD. Frontier is a bit over that. his Calving Ease Direct EPD is very encouraging, but the BW is a little too high for me to use on heifers. i like to keep the BW EPD below +2 on heifers.

 

[mitchwi]

Calving ease for the heifers
Carcass Quality
Maternal Qualities(not sure this one should be hereGV%)
Growth Potential (Really nothing larger than frame score 6)
Structure/Soundness

i would say the carcass quality might be in the wrong place. many studies show that carcass quality is very low on the profitability scale (reproductive ability of females is usually no. 1), especially if you are going to retain any females. Carcass should probably be one of the last considerations. if you can get it and fix the problems, it will be an added bonus. dont make any mistakes for carcass though.

one of the most important things to selling the calves will be what people think when they first see them. mainly, this means good "eye-appeal" and structure, followed by growth (the weight they carry).

Calving Ease being most important is a very smart move. It's no. 1 on my list, no matter what.

Thanks Aero on the clearing up the carcass quality issue. I just thought if I were going to AI, I would want to shoot for quality in the meat department, cuz I would say that is what I am in the business for. Although, no matter what breed we have fed out, no complaints to date.....

 

[mitchwi]

What I have: 2005 heifers Angus/Gelbveih of various %

with the Gelbvieh influence, i wouldnt add any Milk level.

I was thinking along the same line, but wasn't sure.

So when it comes to the $EPD's - total foreign language, please explain or better yet, give example. ;-)

which EPDs in particular do you understand or not understand? give me somewhere to start.

The $ sign ones... $B, or $W, or $F, or $G....not sure if all these are real, just going on the top of my head here.

And, if anyone were to recommend a bull by Accelerated Genetics, ABS, or Select Sires (most common around here) that fits the bill, I would be appreciative.

Please help me learn this stuff :shock:

many people like BAR EXT Traveler 205 from Select Sires for his disposition, udder quality and eye-appeal.

Does he do well on heifers?

we use G A R Expectation 4915 and like everything he makes (semen is getting rare; he just died). we have used quite a bit of G A R Yield Grade and always have good, solid calves.

C A Future Direction 5321 fits the bill for most of everything you are looking for, but is sold through Genex.

I think Genex is around here some too, that may be an option.

how exactly will you sell the calves? as feeder calves? to a feedlot? feed them out yourself?

Usually do the feed out ourselves.... depends on markets.

 

[cedar]

We have used Black Angus "Connealy Freightliner" and can highly recommend him...that is if you only want to use black. We've had 70# birthweights, 650-700# weaning wts. Also freightliner has exceptional daughters which we've kept back in our herd. We believe and have experienced that Red Angus total herd reporting is more accurate with epd's.
Jeff at Cedarbrook Red Angus