Embryo Questions!

[ksmit454]

I'm looking to purchase some embryos. The sale that is offering them shows some variations and I'm looking for clarification. What is the difference between embryos and IVF embryos? The sale is offering lots of 3 and they state

"3 embryos by so and so Dam"

"3 IVF Female embryos by so and so Dam"

"3 IVF Male embryos by so and so Dam"

"3 (non-sexed) embryos by so and so Dam"

I understand the female, male, non-sexed verbiage, but what is the difference between embryos by a specific dam, and IVF embryos by a specific dam?

 

[Stickney94]

Using AI (artificial intelligence not insemination):

The main difference between cattle embryos and in vitro fertilization (IVF) embryos is where they develop:

• Cattle embryos: Also known as in vivo embryos, these develop inside the cow, where the cow acts as an incubator.
  
  
• IVF embryos: These embryos develop outside the cow in a laboratory culture system

I'm sure other, actual people will be along shortly to give a better answer.

 

[Travlr]

What is the difference between embryos and IVF embryos?

A distinction without a difference once you own them. As long as they implant and you get a calf they are the same in real world terms.

 

[simme]

A little more detail.
The original (conventional) embryos are produced by giving hormones/drug to "superovulate" the cow - causing her to release many eggs at once. The cow is AI bred/inseminated. Hopefully, most of the eggs get fertilized in the cow from that semen. Those fertilized eggs (now embryos) float around in the uterus for a while - growing in the process. For a cow that is not superovulated for "flushing", an embryo will eventually (more than a week) attach to the wall of the uterus, connect by placenta, receive nourishment, grow and be born in about 280 days.

Through a mechanical process, those multiple embryos are "flushed" out of the cow using liquid and tubing and collected external to the cow - done at 7 days after breeding before they can attach to the wall of the uterus. Then they are sorted/separated/graded and either "transferred" into a recipient cow that was in heat 7 days prior or frozen for implant later.

The IVF process in cattle is a little newer process than the conventional method. I don't have any direct experience with IVF. But my understanding is a long ultrasound guided needle is inserted into the ovary and unfertilized eggs (oocytes) are aspirated (sucked) out. They are placed in a small dish and mixed with semen to fertilize them. After the fertilized eggs grow, they typically are frozen for future implanting. They are "test tube babies".

Years ago, I think the consensus was that ivf embryos tended to have a lower success rate when implanted compared to conventional embryos. I don't know if that is still the case. A bred cow can be ivf collected (during a certain time of her pregnancy) without interfering with that pregnancy. Obviously, a conventional flush requires an open cow to breed and results in an open cow that can be rebred. I think that is the advantage of the ivf process.

All embryos are from a specific dam of course.

 

[SBMF 2015]

@simme pretty well summed it up. One advantage of IVF is that you can use multiple bulls for one flush.

 

[ksmit454]

Wow this is super neat! Thank you so much for breaking it down for me.

 

[ksmit454]

Another question - once I purchase these, I'm going to have an embryologist place them in my recip cows. UC Davis has asked me to ship them directly to them. I want to make sure they don't get lost however and would like to hand deliver them if possible. If I had them shipped straight to my home, is my home freezer sufficient to store them? How should they be properly stored?

 

[SDgrampa]

ship direct to UC Davis by far safest thing to do A ND no on your freezer

 

[simme]

Another question - once I purchase these, I'm going to have an embryologist place them in my recip cows. UC Davis has asked me to ship them directly to them. I want to make sure they don't get lost however and would like to hand deliver them if possible. If I had them shipped straight to my home, is my home freezer sufficient to store them? How should they be properly stored?

No, NO, NEVER. Are you kidding? A home freezer might be as low as -20 degrees F. Semen and embryos need to be stored at -320 degrees F. Wherever they are shipped, they will come in a special shipper cooled to -320 degrees F by liquid nitrogen. Depending on the shipper, that temperature will be maintained for maybe 2 weeks max before it has to be recharged. Only an experienced person should transfer (quickly) the embryos from that shipper to a more permanent storage tank cooled to -320 degrees by liquid nitrogen. Otherwise, the embryos will die in a very few minutes.

That shipper tank will need to be returned promptly to the owner. The shipper is worth in the range of $1500. The embryologist will be familiar with the requirements for getting it returned.

 

[Travlr]

Another question - once I purchase these, I'm going to have an embryologist place them in my recip cows. UC Davis has asked me to ship them directly to them. I want to make sure they don't get lost however and would like to hand deliver them if possible. If I had them shipped straight to my home, is my home freezer sufficient to store them? How should they be properly stored?

Liquid nitrogen storage in a proper container for storing semen.

 

[ksmit454]

N

No, NO, NEVER. Are you kidding? A home freezer might be as low as -20 degrees F. Semen and embryos need to be stored at -320 degrees F. Wherever they are shipped, they will come in a special shipper cooled to -320 degrees F by liquid nitrogen. Depending on the shipper, that temperature will be maintained for maybe 2 weeks max before it has to be recharged. Only an experienced person should transfer (quickly) the embryos from that shipper to a more permanent storage tank cooled to -320 degrees by liquid nitrogen. Otherwise, the embryos will die in a very few minutes.

That shipper tank will need to be returned promptly to the owner. The shipper is worth in the range of $1500. The embryologist will be familiar with the requirements for getting it returned.

No I was not kidding. Just trying to educate myself.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Another question - once I purchase these, I'm going to have an embryologist place them in my recip cows. UC Davis has asked me to ship them directly to them. I want to make sure they don't get lost however and would like to hand deliver them if possible. If I had them shipped straight to my home, is my home freezer sufficient to store them? How should they be properly stored?

We deal with semen and embryos not in a huge quantity compared to some producers, but fairly regularly. If you have the ability to have the embryos shipped directly to your embryologist do so. If anything goes wrong it's covered by their insurance.
If you've never been around liquid nitrogen it's nothing to play with.

Now that being said. Our embryologist is 20 minutes away. We put embryos in based off natural heat. It's just easier to take the cows to her. The semen tank gets seatbelted in the passenger seat every trip. Our embryologist usually doesn't have enough storage to keep the embryos there for us.