Embryo’s…?

[Redgully]

Simme, I agree. However, after flushing embryos they should be examined under a microscope to determine the stage. The stages are 1 - 9, but viable embryos are stage 4, 5, 6 or 7. The stage is determined by how much the embryo has grown and not necessarily how many days it was before the donor cow was flushed. It is important to know the stage of your embryos so they are implanted the correct number of days after standing heat.

Here we just have grade one and grade two embryos. Grade one can be frozen but grade two go straight into donors at time of flushing. I find the stage grading quite interesting, might need to look into that more. When i was involved with flushing a cow we had over 20 structures but ended up with 6 frozen and 3 grade 2 that went straight into donors.

 

[gizmom]

We did our ET work on Sunday set up 19 put eggs in 15 now wait to see who recycles. We put one egg in that we flushed out of a 13 year old cow back in 2013 the mating was to my all time favorite bull Coleman EXT 6149 I just loved that bull. I also AI'd a few back to him this year the good ones never get stale.

I saw the comment about not freezing grade 2, we have had excellent success freezing and implanting grade 2 eggs I don't freeze grade 3 but have used them direct transfer with some success not great but have had them stick.

 

[J+ Cattle]

When i was involved with flushing a cow we had over 20 structures but ended up with 6 frozen and 3 grade 2 that went straight into donors.

I'm not sure I understand when you said you had "over 20 structures", what do you mean? Is it over 20 eggs recovered but only 9 that were viable for transplanting?

 

[Redgully]

I'm not sure I understand when you said you had "over 20 structures", what do you mean? Is it over 20 eggs recovered but only 9 that were viable for transplanting?

Yes that is correct, it was the cows first flush and we went with a standard hormone set up. The vet said she was a little over stimulated so some eggs released were either not fertilised or not developed. On her next flush he can tweak the program now he knows how she responds.

 

[J+ Cattle]

On her next flush he can tweak the program now he knows how she responds.

I find this an interesting topic so please pardon my questions and ignorance.
When you flush her and remove the eggs there are no eggs left to attach to the uterus wall and so she will recycle again in 18-24 days. Can you flush her again that soon or is it advisable to wait longer?

 

[moses388]

Earlier in the thread I posted a link to a pdf file. I am no expert on embryos, but here is what it says on grade/quality numbers. page 31/32 - Grade/quality numbers are 1-4. They refer to the composition and quantity of debris that is not part of the main cell mass.

To rephrase -
When a fertilized egg grows, the cells divide or split in half. This creates 2 cells where there was only 1 cell; these are called blastomere. Some blastomeres remain part of the main cell mass, but others may travel away from the main cell and are called extruded blastomeres (debris). Extruded blastomeres are visible under a microscope. The grade reflects the quantity of extruded blastomeres. A grade of 1 means there are no extruded blastomeres. A grade of 4 means there are numerous extruded blastomeres. The quantity of debris does not affect the viability of the embryo.

 

[gizmom]

If you get into raising ET calves for other people make sure you hash out the expenses for the transfer and stuff up front. I cover the drugs and CIDR cost and the embryologist bills the transfer to the owner of the embryos. I get $1400 per bucker calf (700 at birth, 700 at pickup) and don't have much to do between birth and pickup dates. The club calves need some creep feed and maybe a haircut (fluffy calves sometimes need a trim down here in south texas) and they bring $1600 with the same payment arrangement. When I first got into it there was a guy who paid in thirds, one at 60 days bred, one at birth, and the rest at pickup.

It has not always been smooth sailing but the learning has been enjoyable and I'm seeing some positive returns.

JS we were a cooperative herd for several years. We had an agreement in writing prior to putting eggs in it worked out well for us. We were able to build up our purebred herd while utilizing our commercial herd to pay the bills. For us it was a good experience.

 

[jschoolcraft86]

JS we were a cooperative herd for several years. We had an agreement in writing prior to putting eggs in it worked out well for us. We were able to build up our purebred herd while utilizing our commercial herd to pay the bills. For us it was a good experience.

That's great to hear. That is exactly what we are doing now. The first four brahman heifers from our embryos should be born between February and April and I am starting to have trouble moderating my excitement. First one is due 2/8.

 

[ksmit454]

That's great to hear. That is exactly what we are doing now. The first four brahman heifers from our embryos should be born between February and April and I am starting to have trouble moderating my excitement. First one is due 2/8.

Any calves yet…?

 

[jschoolcraft86]

Any calves yet…?

Yep! My first brahman heifer came a week ago, 3 more of them coming in April. One of the buckers I have in for someone else came and there's a few more of those any day now.

 

[ksmit454]

Nice!! Brahman are such a neat breed. I'd love to have some one day.

 

[TwoByrdsMG]

We started doing some ET work a couple years ago.

2020: Hired out 2 embryos. I paid $1500 ea for the live calf at the end. Got lucky that both stuck and resulted in 2 calves.

2021: Used our own cows using CIDRs and 7 day protocol- 1st group of 4 cows resulted in 3 calves (2 MG, 1 Charolais) in April
2nd group of cows 5 cows resulted in 1 calf (Charolais) June 22 (it was 100+ degrees for about a week and we did ET in the middle of that! Expensive mistake.

2022 Plan: 5 cows on April 20 and 3-4 more the end of May. We won't even attempt any in June again.

Now why do this again? Its all about the $$$ - already have a buyer for that Charolais calf born 3/20/22 and selling that one calf at the agreed price will pay for for ALL our ET work last year even with the 44% conception.

Now had another person ask who in their right mind buys a 10 day old calf? For anyone who knows Charolais this 10 day old heifer calf is Carbine 1567 x Firewater 5792 and polled (plus I'm retaining rights to flush). Pictures of her below with her MG x WLE Uno Mas receip.

 

[ksmit454]

We started doing some ET work a couple years ago.

2020: Hired out 2 embryos. I paid $1500 ea for the live calf at the end. Got lucky that both stuck and resulted in 2 calves.

2021: Used our own cows using CIDRs and 7 day protocol- 1st group of 4 cows resulted in 3 calves (2 MG, 1 Charolais) in April
2nd group of cows 5 cows resulted in 1 calf (Charolais) June 22 (it was 100+ degrees for about a week and we did ET in the middle of that! Expensive mistake.

2022 Plan: 5 cows on April 20 and 3-4 more the end of May. We won't even attempt any in June again.

Now why do this again? Its all about the $$$ - already have a buyer for that Charolais calf born 3/20/22 and selling that one calf at the agreed price will pay for for ALL our ET work last year even with the 44% conception.

Now had another person ask who in their right mind buys a 10 day old calf? For anyone who knows Charolais this 10 day old heifer calf is Carbine 1567 x Firewater 5792 and polled (plus I'm retaining rights to flush). Pictures of her below with her MG x WLE Uno Mas receip.

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Wow nice looking calf!!