Embryo’s…?

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ksmit454

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I have a friend who has connections to a top Waygu cattle breeder. He sells embryos and my friend wants to use my cows to get some full Waygu’s. I have done AI before but I have no idea how the embryo part works. Can someone please explain? Can we use heat patches for this or do we need to use the hormones & CIDR’s? I know nothing about embryos.
 

Stickney94

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I have a friend who has connections to a top Waygu cattle breeder. He sells embryos and my friend wants to use my cows to get some full Waygu’s. I have done AI before but I have no idea how the embryo part works. Can someone please explain? Can we use heat patches for this or do we need to use the hormones & CIDR’s? I know nothing about embryos.

We used ET for the first time last summer. The Embryologist had us set up our recips with cidrs much like for AI. The embryo is then implanted roughly one week after you would normally AI the cow.

That's a very rough timing. I'm sure others can give the schedule down to the hour/minute.
 

Redgully

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I haven't done much embryo work but when i did we set the cows up like a normal a.i. program and added a couple of extra shots to tighten the window. Once i used two heifers and all we did was give two shots of lutalyse 12 hours apart and worked great, both took.
 

moses388

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If doing several recips, it's easier to do them all at once using hormones and CIDRs. If you are doing 1 or 2 you can go off natural heats.

The Stage of the embryo determines when it is put into the recip. Day 7 recipients receive a Stage 5 or 6 embryo. Deposit the embryo in the upper third of the uterine horn. The horn with the CL.
 

J+ Cattle

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I think the published national average is around 40 percent versus 65-70 percent AI
When i first did embryos was told to work on 0%, everything after that is a bonus.
At 0% why would anybody even try, at 40% it makes it a very expensive proposition. Now I understand why, on a video that I watched, they split an embryo in half and said that if they could have around 60-70 cells each, they had a chance of survival. I can see how you could easily be $1000 into it just to get a pregnancy. I guess I'm not that much of a gambler and should just stick with using AI, the odds are better, and the cost is lower.
 

jschoolcraft86

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At 0% why would anybody even try, at 40% it makes it a very expensive proposition. Now I understand why, on a video that I watched, they split an embryo in half and said that if they could have around 60-70 cells each, they had a chance of survival. I can see how you could easily be $1000 into it just to get a pregnancy. I guess I'm not that much of a gambler and should just stick with using AI, the odds are better, and the cost is lower.
My experience has been the type of embryo makes a significant difference as well. I 6 out of 7 stick with conventional embryos but have been closer to the 40% for the IVF ones we put in.

The recip cows make a huge difference as well, it is costly to do ET no matter what, but poor recips make it a whole lot worse.
 

J+ Cattle

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@jschoolcraft86 I'm completely ignorant about embryo transfer but was thinking that it may be a way to speed up progress towards my goals. Looking at the high costs and marginal success rates I'm thinking that maybe I have more time than money. :unsure:
 

jschoolcraft86

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It can definitely speed up some progress but you definitely run a good chance of spending to get there. Most of my ET work is raising calves for other people. I've got some bucking bull embryos and club calves in for some guys and a couple brahman embryos of my own that should be calving soon. Pretty interesting stuff.
 

kenny thomas

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It can definitely speed up some progress but you definitely run a good chance of spending to get there. Most of my ET work is raising calves for other people. I've got some bucking bull embryos and club calves in for some guys and a couple brahman embryos of my own that should be calving soon. Pretty interesting stuff.
ksmit554, this is a way for you to do it without loosing a lot of money learning. Come to an agreement on a price including what a natural calf would be worth for you to sell.
 

jschoolcraft86

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If you get into raising ET calves for other people make sure you hash out the expenses for the transfer and stuff up front. I cover the drugs and CIDR cost and the embryologist bills the transfer to the owner of the embryos. I get $1400 per bucker calf (700 at birth, 700 at pickup) and don't have much to do between birth and pickup dates. The club calves need some creep feed and maybe a haircut (fluffy calves sometimes need a trim down here in south texas) and they bring $1600 with the same payment arrangement. When I first got into it there was a guy who paid in thirds, one at 60 days bred, one at birth, and the rest at pickup.

It has not always been smooth sailing but the learning has been enjoyable and I'm seeing some positive returns.
 

Redgully

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Thank you all for the comments. I feel that ET is beyond my scope of knowledge at this point. I am familiar with AI and currently I’m renting a bull for my 3 cows. I hope to learn more about ET and recips!
I only have 6 cows and have done a few embryos here and there, doing more soon. At them moment i have the embryos in my tank, watch the cow for a heat, ring my vet and he comes put 7 days later and implants, its that simple if you want it to be. You could just have the embryologist have the embryos in his tank.
 
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ksmit454

ksmit454

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I only have 6 cows and have done a few embryos here and there, doing more soon. At them moment i have the embryos in my tank, watch the cow for a heat, ring my vet and he comes put 7 days later and implants, its that simple if you want it to be. You could just have the embryologist have the embryos in his tank.
So after the cows are showing signs of standing heat, why does the vet come 7 days after that? And he implants the embryo? Does the embryologist take the time to put the semen and egg together? Sorry I obviously know nothing but I think asking questions is the best step to learning 😊
 

simme

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Embryos are recovered (from the donor cow) 7 days after the AI breeding of the donor cow. They float around in there for several days while they grow prior to attaching to the uterus. The heat cycles of the donor cow and the recipients are synchronized so that they are all in the same stage so that the reproductive tracts of the recips are ready to receive the embryos. Embryos recovered 7 days after breeding and transferred into the recip 7 days after being in heat. Semen and egg are "put together" (fertilized) in the donor cow after AI breeding in the first part of that 7 days. (IVF is different. IVF method puts them together in a "test tube".)
Here is an explanation of the process.
 

moses388

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Embryos are recovered (from the donor cow) 7 days after the AI breeding of the donor cow. They float around in there for several days while they grow prior to attaching to the uterus. The heat cycles of the donor cow and the recipients are synchronized so that they are all in the same stage so that the reproductive tracts of the recips are ready to receive the embryos. Embryos recovered 7 days after breeding and transferred into the recip 7 days after being in heat. Semen and egg are "put together" (fertilized) in the donor cow after AI breeding in the first part of that 7 days. (IVF is different. IVF method puts them together in a "test tube".)
Here is an explanation of the process.

Simme, I agree. However, after flushing embryos they should be examined under a microscope to determine the stage. The stages are 1 - 9, but viable embryos are stage 4, 5, 6 or 7. The stage is determined by how much the embryo has grown and not necessarily how many days it was before the donor cow was flushed. It is important to know the stage of your embryos so they are implanted the correct number of days after standing heat.
 

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