embros

[Anonymous]

I am considering raising registered angus and it is much cheaper to get into the business purchasing fertilized eggs. I have many very good commerical cows that would make good serrogate mothers, but I am still a little pestimistic about the whole idea. The eggs are $500 apiece and the rancher said I could expect a 65% suceess rate on conception. Does anyone have any experience at this or know anyone who has?

 

[la4angus]

I am considering raising registered angus and it is much cheaper to get into the business purchasing fertilized eggs. I have many very good commerical cows that would make good serrogate mothers, but I am still a little pestimistic about the whole idea. The eggs are $500 apiece and the rancher said I could expect a 65% suceess rate on conception. Does anyone have any experience at this or know anyone who has?

The cost of eggs can vary from + or - $300. to well over $500.00 with not many selling over $500.00. The 65% success rate is a pretty good success
rate; depending on the experience of the experience of the tech. doing the implanting and if the eggs are going to be implanted fresh or frozen.
At a 65% success rate and $500.00 eggs you are looking at $1000.00
calves hitting the ground before any other expenses are taken into consideration. In my mind there are very few eggs worth that price for many established breeders. Do not get me wrong; I do not have any eggs to sell and also would not encourage a person to go this route in establishing a cowherd. There are to many weaned hfr. calves and yearlings out there that can be bought for a lot less than what you will be looking at by the time these heifers that you keep will be ready to breed. By the time that these heifers that you would keep for cows are ready to breed, heifers that you would buy could be calving or have calves ready to sell. I also do not have any heifers or calves or any female breeding stock to sell.
I can be eMailed through this board.

 

[dun]

If you look at the cost of raising a heifer to breeding age from conception, buying yearling heifers in the $1000 range makes more sense. You also wouldn;t have to contend with the percentage that are bulls as you would from embryos. Plus, you would be able to start getting calves on the ground a lot sooner. You have to figure that your looking at nearly 3 years from implanting embryos until you start getting a return on your investment. With yearlings your looking at one year, bred heifers around 6 months

dun

 

[Anonymous]

thanks for the input guys,just got back from the breeder and he only had 1 out of fifteen success rate this go around. with that in mind and your input I believe I will be passing on the eggs. I still have not been able to fing any registered angus at a resonable price though' all the ranches ask about 4,000. a head for bred cows. any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks

 

[la4angus]

thanks for the input guys,just got back from the breeder and he only had 1 out of fifteen success rate this go around. with that in mind and your input I believe I will be passing on the eggs. I still have not been able to fing any registered angus at a resonable price though' all the ranches ask about 4,000. a head for bred cows. any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks

I know where some dang good cattle could be bought privately for less than that.
eMail me.

 

[Anonymous]

Hold on a sec fellas, the man said he wanted to get into purebred angus. The cheapest way by far is to go the egg route. If you are not four generations deep with AI breeding, no one wants your bulls, regardless of performance or quality. Take the Iowa Beef Expo sale, good doing thick herd bull sired calves brought half of what AI sired calves brought. It seems to me, that if someone wanted to play the pb game they need to have epds in the top 1% for dewclaw length or whatever it is this week, and the cheapest way to get into that is with eggs.jmho

 

[dun]

If you figure the price of embyos, the technician to emplant them, cost of a recip cow, feed for that cow till she weans her calf,feed for the calf for another 17 months to feed the heifer calf (if you get a heifer), plus the cost of breeding the heifer, you can buy some very good registered cows for less moey or maybe the same. Except you know what your getting and you start getting a pay back on your investment a whole lot faster by either buying pairs, or even three in one packages.

dun

Hold on a sec fellas, the man said he wanted to get into purebred angus. The cheapest way by far is to go the egg route. If you are not four generations deep with AI breeding, no one wants your bulls, regardless of performance or quality. Take the Iowa Beef Expo sale, good doing thick herd bull sired calves brought half of what AI sired calves brought. It seems to me, that if someone wanted to play the pb game they need to have epds in the top 1% for dewclaw length or whatever it is this week, and the cheapest way to get into that is with eggs.jmho

 

[Frankie]

I am considering raising registered angus and it is much cheaper to get into the business purchasing fertilized eggs. I have many very good commerical cows that would make good serrogate mothers, but I am still a little pestimistic about the whole idea. The eggs are $500 apiece and the rancher said I could expect a 65% suceess rate on conception. Does anyone have any experience at this or know anyone who has?

IMO buying embryos is not the best way to get into the Angus business. It's a long time from getting them implanted and selling anything. The spring sale season is starting. There will be a lot of good Angus cattle sold around the country for a lot less than $4000. Where are you? You could possibly check with your state Angus Assn and get a list of sales to be held in your state? Or post your state and someone on the board might be able to help. Good luck...

 

[PATB]

If you are planning to get in the registered angus business join the american angus association and get and read the "Angus Journal" . They usually have a section with sale results. I see very few sales averaging $4000 for cows. I would have to be a exceptional cow to be worth $4000 dollars to me. I would look up breeders in your area that raise their cattle with similiar management style that you currently use. Remember that price does not always equal quality.

 

[Frankie]

If you are planning to get in the registered angus business join the american angus association and get and read the "Angus Journal" . They usually have a section with sale results. I see very few sales averaging $4000 for cows. I would have to be a exceptional cow to be worth $4000 dollars to me. I would look up breeders in your area that raise their cattle with similiar management style that you currently use. Remember that price does not always equal quality.

The Journal is online, too. http://www.angusjournal.com

 

[PATB]

If you are planning to get in the registered angus business join the american angus association and get and read the "Angus Journal" . They usually have a section with sale results. I see very few sales averaging $4000 for cows. I would have to be a exceptional cow to be worth $4000 dollars to me. I would look up breeders in your area that raise their cattle with similiar management style that you currently use. Remember that price does not always equal quality.

The Journal is online, too. http://www.angusjournal.com

Frankie I did not think the online version had the sale reports or advertising in it. I know it has all the articles.

 

[la4angus]

The sales that are listed right now go from 2-21-04 through 2-25-02.
Just go to http://www.angusjournal.com and click on Sale Ring.

 

[Frankie]

If you are planning to get in the registered angus business join the american angus association and get and read the "Angus Journal" . They usually have a section with sale results. I see very few sales averaging $4000 for cows. I would have to be a exceptional cow to be worth $4000 dollars to me. I would look up breeders in your area that raise their cattle with similiar management style that you currently use. Remember that price does not always equal quality.

The Journal is online, too. http://www.angusjournal.com

Frankie I did not think the online version had the sale reports or advertising in it. I know it has all the articles.

Pat, you may be right. We get an email from [email protected] with a list of sales across the US. Or he could contact the Angus fieldman in his state for info on upcoming sales. But he should be able to get good AI sired cattle for a lot less than $4000.

 

[PATB]

The sales that are listed right now go from 2-21-04 through 2-25-02.
Just go to http://www.angusjournal.com and click on Sale Ring.

I was thinking about sale results so he would have an idea what cattle were going for in his area. I know that angus topics carry the sale highlights for most of the major sales. What was the high saleing animals and what the average sale price was. I think hte angus journal does the same.

 

[Oldtimer]

I don't know what breed you are heading for, but I saw some good bred purebred angus heifers from top Montana purebred breeders sell for $1000 to 1200 last month. Might cost you another $100 to get papers transfered, but you'd be set up with calves on the ground now.

You might also look at going to some of the purebred dealers yearly partial dispersion sales where they sell their older cattle. Many of these cows have many calves left in them- also many are much better genetically as far as frame and size then some of the so-called daughters of "wonder-sires". Depends on the market you want to go in to.

 

[Campground Cattle]

I know of plenty of reg angus breeders in the East Texas Area typically a 3in1 pair sells for 1500 to 2000 dollar range. Are these guys that are asking 4000 ARMED sounds like robbery to me

 

[PATB]

I don't know what breed you are heading for, but I saw some good bred purebred angus heifers from top Montana purebred breeders sell for $1000 to 1200 last month. Might cost you another $100 to get papers transfered, but you'd be set up with calves on the ground now.

You might also look at going to some of the purebred dealers yearly partial dispersion sales where they sell their older cattle. Many of these cows have many calves left in them- also many are much better genetically as far as frame and size then some of the so-called daughters of "wonder-sires". Depends on the market you want to go in to.

Dad and I bought 12 older pairs of cattle from a local breeder when we decided to increase our registered herd back in 96. The only regret that I have is that I didn't purchase more then. 6 of these cows are still in production.

pat

 

[Rod]

Thanks for all the input guys. As always with cattle, there are many schools of thought on any topic. I agree with the with the fact that embros are very long term return on ones investment, but on the other hand , I think it is alot more of a cheaper means to get surperior genetics. The doner cows (which start out @ $40,000 and go up in price) are proven surperior genetics and carcus traights that a guy just cant buy anywhere or much less produce with any ol registered stock. The sires (which includes EXPRESS' $202,000 bull) are second to none. I would think if a guy could start a herd with gentics like that for $400 an egg +50 a head (for implanting) +$550 (cost of calf that carrier cow would of had anyway) for a total of $1000 a calf, this would be a whole He_ _ of alot cheaper than going the $40,000 cow and $202,000 bull route that these top breeders are going. We are all after to get more out of our productions, and I cant seem to think that these type of genetics wont bring more money to the table.

 

[Frankie]

Thanks for all the input guys. As always with cattle, there are many schools of thought on any topic. I agree with the with the fact that embros are very long term return on ones investment, but on the other hand , I think it is alot more of a cheaper means to get surperior genetics. The doner cows (which start out @ $40,000 and go up in price) are proven surperior genetics and carcus traights that a guy just cant buy anywhere or much less produce with any ol registered stock. The sires (which includes EXPRESS' $202,000 bull) are second to none. I would think if a guy could start a herd with gentics like that for $400 an egg +50 a head (for implanting) +$550 (cost of calf that carrier cow would of had anyway) for a total of $1000 a calf, this would be a whole He_ _ of alot cheaper than going the $40,000 cow and $202,000 bull route that these top breeders are going. We are all after to get more out of our productions, and I cant seem to think that these type of genetics wont bring more money to the table.

Several years ago I noticed an ad for a first production sale by an Angus breeder here in my state that I’d never heard of. I called him to ask for a catalog and we had a good visit. He had devoted his life to building a large, successful, national business. When he decided to retire, he sold it for millions of dollars and moved to the “farm.” After a while, he decided he’d like to have a few Angus cows around. At the same time a large, long- time Angus breeder in the state was dispersing, so he called the sale manager and introduced himself. The manager invited him down to look at the cattle and introduced him to the owner and a consultant. They took him under their wings and showed him the top cows. He wound up buying some of the highest priced cows in the sale and later went to their last bull sale and bought high dollar bulls. These cows were sisters, daughters, dams, of some nationally known Angus cattle. Buying Angus cattle is fun and he had a great time going from sale to sale and buying a herd of top quality cattle. But when he went to sell calves out of those top quality cows and bulls, he was shocked to find he could only get a bit above commercial prices. As a successful businessman, he refused to sell stock for less than he thought they were worth. But cows kept having calves and when he ran out of grass, he bought another ranch in a neighboring state. First thing he knew, he was working as hard trying to manage two ranches as he had been when he was operating his other business. So he was having a production sale to get his numbers down. The reason I tell this story is to emphasize that just because you have the “best” (and, believe me, that’s in the eye of the beholder) genetics doesn’t mean you can get paid for them. If the producer you’re buying stock from will allow you to participate in his sales, that’s great and you might do well. If not, where will you sell these cattle? I have a Bando 598 cow walking around in the pasture. I can put a straw of 036 in her and raise a 3/4 brother to 878. I sold a 3/4 brother to VRD a couple of years ago for $2500. With AI, I can use those $100,000 bulls for $40 or less. Commercial cattlemen are the backbone of the Angus business and they generally don’t care if the bull is out of a $40,000 cow or one you raised yourself. They want performance and reasonable prices. Best of luck to you…

 

[txag]

Several years ago I noticed an ad for a first production sale by an Angus breeder here in my state that I’d never heard of. I called him to ask for a catalog and we had a good visit. He had devoted his life to building a large, successful, national business. When he decided to retire, he sold it for millions of dollars and moved to the “farm.” After a while, he decided he’d like to have a few Angus cows around. At the same time a large, long- time Angus breeder in the state was dispersing, so he called the sale manager and introduced himself. The manager invited him down to look at the cattle and introduced him to the owner and a consultant. They took him under their wings and showed him the top cows. He wound up buying some of the highest priced cows in the sale and later went to their last bull sale and bought high dollar bulls. These cows were sisters, daughters, dams, of some nationally known Angus cattle. Buying Angus cattle is fun and he had a great time going from sale to sale and buying a herd of top quality cattle. But when he went to sell calves out of those top quality cows and bulls, he was shocked to find he could only get a bit above commercial prices. As a successful businessman, he refused to sell stock for less than he thought they were worth. But cows kept having calves and when he ran out of grass, he bought another ranch in a neighboring state. First thing he knew, he was working as hard trying to manage two ranches as he had been when he was operating his other business. So he was having a production sale to get his numbers down. The reason I tell this story is to emphasize that just because you have the “best” (and, believe me, that’s in the eye of the beholder) genetics doesn’t mean you can get paid for them. If the producer you’re buying stock from will allow you to participate in his sales, that’s great and you might do well. If not, where will you sell these cattle? I have a Bando 598 cow walking around in the pasture. I can put a straw of 036 in her and raise a 3/4 brother to 878. I sold a 3/4 brother to VRD a couple of years ago for $2500. With AI, I can use those $100,000 bulls for $40 or less. Commercial cattlemen are the backbone of the Angus business and they generally don’t care if the bull is out of a $40,000 cow or one you raised yourself. They want performance and reasonable prices. Best of luck to you…

well said & good point frankie. i agree. most of our commercial buyers don't know or care who the grand champion bull in denver was this year or how much the a.i. bulls we use sold for in a production sale. they look through the bulls and more often than not they pick the biggest, heaviest calf that they can get for the price they are willing to spend. while we always give them a printout of sire, dam, epds, production data, usually the only thing they look at are the weights.....they don't give a rat's behind how much we paid for the dam or how much $$ we have in the calf (if it's an embryo calf)