electric fence planning

[danbrady]

Hey folks. This is Dan here in central LA. I am planning on putting up an electric fence. I will take any input, my fence is gonna cover ultimately 300 acres of some creeks zigzagging and just plain aggravating to muddle around places. What I am wondering is do I come out better with a more permanent hot wire, or use the thinner wire and get by til later? I plan on the cheap wire around the creeks, and along the perimeter using the stronger, permanent wire. I like the aluminum because of no rust worries, but will it stretch too much? Input on the best power supply is good too, I plan on using a 100 mile charger from an AC source. Anyway, thankyou for your time and I will be checking back with you all. Thanks cowpokes.

 

[SRBeef]

Hey folks. This is Dan here in central LA. I am planning on putting up an electric fence. I will take any input, my fence is gonna cover ultimately 300 acres of some creeks zigzagging and just plain aggravating to muddle around places. What I am wondering is do I come out better with a more permanent hot wire, or use the thinner wire and get by til later? I plan on the cheap wire around the creeks, and along the perimeter using the stronger, permanent wire. I like the aluminum because of no rust worries, but will it stretch too much? Input on the best power supply is good too, I plan on using a 100 mile charger from an AC source. Anyway, thankyou for your time and I will be checking back with you all. Thanks cowpokes.

By electric fence do you mean a multi-strand hi-tensile or just one electric wire? What are you trying to hold in? what if they get through this fence, are they out on the road?

From what I read in your original post I would use a good, US made Red brand 14 ga galvanized STEEL wire as a minimum. I use aluminum on reels for my interior temporary dividers in a rotational grazing system. I would not recommend aluminum in any sort of permanent or semi-permanent fence.

If you are puttin gup ANY fence at all use top quality materials. The cost difference in the wire is insignificant compared to the labor to put it in and the possible consequences if it breaks.

What are you doing for posts, etc?

Good luck.

jim

 

[danbrady]

Hey Jim,
You are right on. I am holding in cows, and some are the fence pushing black angus. I have been studying since I posted, Tractor Supply has a high tensile electric wire 4000 ft. and it's about 100 bucks. Not bad. It's gonna be my choice for the perimeters adjacent to property lines. I will probably use the 14gage aluminum throughout my crossfences and creeks. I am going to buy the 6 joule 100 mile charger, it's a zareba. When I outgrow it with fence I put up I plan on upgrading to the 15 joule 200 mile charger. I am feeling more confident now. I have been studying up on it some and this will be my fastest and cheapest fix. It will probably deter some of the extra hunting some folks take advantage of on the back side of the creek where we can't just get to in a hurry. Anyway, I figure for every square 20 acres I fence off, it will cost about $500 using the heaviest wire, maybe alittle less with the aluminum.
Thanks for the response, how about coming down here and showing me a time or two, LOL...

 

[SRBeef]

I still think 14 gage steel is a better choice than aluminum for any stationary (not moved frequently) fence. You can stretch it tighter without breaking, doesn't sag, doesn't change so much with temperature... etc.

The main reason to use aluminum rather than steel is just weight and flexibility for fences that are moved often. I have used both and that was my conclusion in my application. Good luck. Jim

 

[danbrady]

I also forgot to mention on posts, I plan on using some wooden, then 6ft t-posts in between. On my spacing I was thinking as far as I could get away with, like 75 foot. Alternating wooden to steel. And with a 4 string on the perimeter. 2 string on the crosses. On the perimeter and some of the cross fences I already have existing fences. I plan to back off from them about two ft inside and let my bottom wire be about 18 inches off the ground, considering that the other fence is still behind it as a boundary. The old fence has just lost its dependability, it's hanging from trees and it's posts are holding the wire together, but the posts are rotten at the ground. I would like to keep it standing where I can, I mean it's a boundary, so I don't want to back up so far that I can't reach through and put in a post if it needs it. If I could I would go alittle less than 2 ft from it. But I'm starting to understand stretch and losing the grounding to feet action. What size of wooden posts are necessary, I have to be a tightwad when I can. But I need to hear the voice of reason. Tell me how this idea is shaping up?

 

[danbrady]

Yeah, I checked the price too, steel is cheaper. I was thinking about visibility, boy it's gonna be hard to break my brother in law to not prowl the creek at night where the hot wire is, lol, or maybe not too hard for me. I'll have to hang some flourescent ribbons on it to help.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Dan I wouldn't use the T-post
I would go with the powerflex post and I think you will be alot happier in the long run
also they have far better fence wire and are alot more informative on elec fencing and can answer any questions you may have
I am sorry but I have never been a fan of TSC or any of the large chain farm stores when it comes to fencing products
www.powerflexfence.com

 

[Howdyjabo]

When I have an old fence that is still up but getting brittle and weak- I just run a single hi-tensile line 10 inches inside of it. Galleger sells some real nice extenders if you have any posts on the old fence worth using. I have extended the use of some really bad old fences doing this, some 20 yrs now.
Keep in mind that when you keep old fences up around an electric fence you will FOREVER have to deal with wires getting over to the hot fence and shorting it out.
If I was going to put up a four strand hot fence I would get rid of the old fence.

 

[plumber_greg]

Dan, could I ask you why you're gonna' buy a 6 joule charger now, knowing and planning to buy a 15 joule later? Go ahead and buy the 15 now and pay the extra rather than losing the price of the 6 in a couple of years. I don't think you can ever have too big a charger, as you approach the limits of the 6 your voltage and amps will drop pretty dramatically. gs

 

[SRBeef]

One thing to think about with fence chargers is that in my opinion anything more than about 6 joules on a fence can be potentially dangerous. Maybe there are some cattle and situations that need the 15 joules talked about above, but that much juice can be dangerous to people especially kids who may accidentally touch the wire.

I was working on one of my fences last year, thought I had it shut off but forgot about a slinky gate which was feeding it from the other end. I put my hand on that 6 joule wire and it literally threw me on my backside! I would not want any more than 6 joules on a fence! I now also double check with the fence tester before assuming a line is shut off.

A second point is that the more energy/higher joules in each pulse, the more likely the fence is going to short out. The higher the joules and voltage on the wire, the more likely it is going to bridge a gap and short out, especially in damp weather.

In my opinion for most cattle and most moderate size fence systems, 6 joules is plenty. If you have a larger system, use two 6 joule chargers. Pay attention to details of grounding and connections and insulators, etc and you may not need as large a charger.

Because of the way my system is laid out, I use two 6 joule chargers. feeding separate branches. You do NOT want two fencers feeding the same line.

Dry Texas type conditions and long runs may be an exception, but I think 6 joules is sort of a good place to be for many cattle fences. More is not always better. jmho. Jim

 

[curtis]

Jim , what is the voltage output of your 6 joule charger? My charger is an old Sears Weed Control, model #43677720 that puts out about 4500 when tested. I've had it 26 years and it was used when i got it. I have to replace the chopper about every 8 to 10 years but other than that its trouble free.
It was made by Sears & Roebuck Co.

 

[plumber_greg]

One thing to think about with fence chargers is that in my opinion anything more than about 6 joules on a fence can be potentially dangerous. Maybe there are some cattle and situations that need the 15 joules talked about above, but that much juice can be dangerous to people especially kids who may accidentally touch the wire.

I was working on one of my fences last year, thought I had it shut off but forgot about a slinky gate which was feeding it from the other end. I put my hand on that 6 joule wire and it literally threw me on my backside! I would not want any more than 6 joules on a fence! I now also double check with the fence tester before assuming a line is shut off.

A second point is that the more energy/higher joules in each pulse, the more likely the fence is going to short out. The higher the joules and voltage on the wire, the more likely it is going to bridge a gap and short out, especially in damp weather.

In my opinion for most cattle and most moderate size fence systems, 6 joules is plenty. If you have a larger system, use two 6 joule chargers. Pay attention to details of grounding and connections and insulators, etc and you may not need as large a charger.

Because of the way my system is laid out, I use two 6 joule chargers. feeding separate branches. You do NOT want two fencers feeding the same line.

Dry Texas type conditions and long runs may be an exception, but I think 6 joules is sort of a good place to be for many cattle fences. More is not always better. jmho. Jim

Jim,Joules =volts X Ampres x time A 6 joule 50 miles from the charger hitting you with 80 amps will give you the same shock as a 15 joule 50 miles from the charger hitting you with 80 amps. Actually the same as a 1 joule, just has to be closer to the charger. the benifit of the bigger chargers is that you can still get the desired amps fauther away despite weeds and small shorts. The low impedence chargers only last for parts of a second, therefore the time is always the same. Notice with your tester how the volts go up as you get farther away from the charger.
Just because you have a 15 joule charger doesn't mean that you or your animals actually get a 15 joule shock, just that the potential is there if it were a continous current, which it is not. By having 2 chargers, app;ied right you have not reduced the shock that your fence will put out, just it's ability to maintain it's ability to work as designed as the fence gets longer.
Don't know if that all makes sense, but that's the way chargers work. Volts make the pop and crack and the show, the amps are what makes the fence work. jmo gs

 

[SRBeef]

Jim , what is the voltage output of your 6 joule charger? My charger is an old Sears Weed Control, model #43677720 that puts out about 4500 when tested. I've had it 26 years and it was used when i got it. I have to replace the chopper about every 8 to 10 years but other than that its trouble free.
It was made by Sears & Roebuck Co.

I use two Gallagher M600's on separate loops. I have one spot where the loops could be connected if one charger goes down for some reason. My gallgher fence tester usually shows somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 volts depending on the weather, weeds on the wire, whether I use the tester ground lead etc. I would say if I see less than about 7200 volts there is a problem somewhere on the fence. The M600 seems to be able to repel even in the heavy weed season. These two chargers are on opposite sides of a hill - if you use two chargers, the two ground systems need to be a fair distance apart from each other.

Here is the unit: http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/permanent.component.aspx?mktprodid=4460

Volts are what they are going to "smell" and usually keeps them back. The joules is what makes them remember the first time they touched it, just like I remember putting my hand on that hot wire! I remember thinking at the time that this thing could cause cardiac arrest if you had any heart problems at all. I see Gallagher has 25 and 50 joule units on their website but I would never use one of those. Must be some dryland application for them. I feel the larger units in addition to spark/shorting more often may also attract lightning along my ridges. although I have not had any problems after installing lightning chokes as Dun here suggested. To their credit Gallagher replaced TWO M600's no charge within their 2 yr warranty due to lightning damage. Good luck. Jim

edit - Greg: my two chargers are on SEPARATE loops. I am told to never put two chargers on the same fence. I use 2 M600's because at any one point on any one loop there will be fewer joules than if I had one M1000 feeding both loops. In damp weather the M600 arcs out less than an M1000.

I have never yet had any of my cattle challenge any of my fences, even a single wire. BTW I have just a single hot wire 32" off the ground right now separating my cows from some very attractive unharvested standing corn. And they don't even think about challenging that fence... jmho and beginner's experience. Jim

 

[plumber_greg]

Jim,
I realize you're on two separate loops. I think what I am asking is- if your M600 is shorted anywhere on your line, and your tester says it's pulling 60 amps, is that less of a shock than a M1000 shorted out pulling 60 amps? An amp is an amp, no matter how much voltage or time is multiplied. Does the joule rating mean only the chargers ability to maintain the 60 amps farther from the source? I'm asking cuz' I don't know and want to find out. I work around a lot of engineers and know you guys like numbers, so maybe you can help us.
Thanks gs

 

[danbrady]

I really appreciate the responses. I could cut back to two wires without a problem, or just one in some places. I will have to look into the powerflexfence, was wondering if it was all built to be used together. I see the benefit of not using steel posts. It is possible I could have two chargers, it will take alot of time before I get all the wires run. I have another place that is about 150 acres I could move the 6 joule to, then I would have two. I will probably just get a second 6 joule and set them separately, but as I see it they can use the same grounding system. You guys are pretty sharp when it comes to these cattle issues, I am really glad I asked. I looked on here and just couldn't find it on my own.

I believe it's possible to run one wire throughout the creek area, if so, would it be set about 2 ft high? I have some brahman influence, but never more than 3/8. If one didn't hold you could add another wire, or hamburger the high jumper. I don't really care for the super exciteable hard hitting cattle. If an empty sack won't toll them, they are living on the edge with me.

 

[highgrit]

Aluminum wire, breaks easy, kinks real bad. I tried it and had to replace all of it.

 

[jedstivers]

I'll try to post more tomarrow, but I'll just say go with the whole PowerFlex system. I have several miles of it up for my fence I don't move an I have about 10 miles of the 14 guage on steel post that we put up an take down four months later. The PowerFlex is not broken by deer either.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I still think 14 gage steel is a better choice than aluminum for any stationary (not moved frequently) fence. You can stretch it tighter without breaking, doesn't sag, doesn't change so much with temperature... etc.

The main reason to use aluminum rather than steel is just weight and flexibility for fences that are moved often. I have used both and that was my conclusion in my application. Good luck. Jim

Any reason to use aluminum rather than poly wire or poly braid for temporary fence?

 

[pdfangus]

I endorse power flex products as well.

One thing I saw that no one has mentioned.

Aluminum and steel wire are not compatible as far as connections.

One will eat the other. Even Aluminum wire put on a standard gate handle will corrode and something will bust over time. If you put copper or brass between them it will extend the life but I find it easier to just use steel.

I use poly wire if I am going to be moving it. Steel if I am not.

 

[Kingfisher]

I really appreciate the responses. I could cut back to two wires without a problem, or just one in some places. I will have to look into the powerflexfence, was wondering if it was all built to be used together. I see the benefit of not using steel posts. It is possible I could have two chargers, it will take alot of time before I get all the wires run. I have another place that is about 150 acres I could move the 6 joule to, then I would have two. I will probably just get a second 6 joule and set them separately, but as I see it they can use the same grounding system. You guys are pretty sharp when it comes to these cattle issues, I am really glad I asked. I looked on here and just couldn't find it on my own.

I believe it's possible to run one wire throughout the creek area, if so, would it be set about 2 ft high? I have some brahman influence, but never more than 3/8. If one didn't hold you could add another wire, or hamburger the high jumper. I don't really care for the super exciteable hard hitting cattle. If an empty sack won't toll them, they are living on the edge with me.

What part of La are you located?