Eating Snow Advice

[mnmtranching]

This is a true story. About 15 years ago on rented land. A heavy early snow fall, I hauled cattle home. Had a half dozen cows that wouldn't load that day and we got more snow and wind. Had a row of bales and opened the gate. I thought, let the wind die down and I would plow out and get the cows home in a couple days. It was tough but I chopped a hole in the pond for them to water [the only source] The cows didn't like the idea of going the 8th mile to get it. One thing led to another and the cows stayed there all Winter and went back on grass on the Spring. All six calved, raised calves and when I brought the others over in the Spring there was no noticeable difference in condition. It takes a good part of the cows day, but they will get all the water they need out of the snow.

 

[Willow Springs]

I have wintered my cows entirely on snow the last two winters (once it became available). I did it because I was limit feeding and the cows would come back to the yard once they were out of feed and hang around. I wanted them in the field pooping; not in the yard; so I locked them out. It worked just fine. I didn't have to increase the feed they were getting, and they stayed in good condition. I started them cold turkey and they learned; no issues.

As for teaching them; I don't know. I think in our country almost every animal at some point in its life has taken in snow for water. Whether the waterer froze up or the hole froze over or they were too lazy to walk to the yard for water (I had seen my cows doing this before I ever tried snow for water). I did some reading and the local University had done a study on using snow. There wasn't a difference between watered cows and snowed cows in weight, body condition, pregnancy rates or pounds of calf weaned. The thought is that the rumen and the animal gives off a lot of waste heat anyway just in the digestion process. When the cows lick snow they do have to take in a lot (in small amounts) to meet water requirements; this snow will not get to the rumen; it will melt via the waste heat in the mouth and throat, therefore the body temperature of the animal isn't ever compromised. Now watch a big cow that walks to water once a day and tanks up very quickly on water just above freezing. Who is under more stress from a body core temp change??

One thing to remember though is that it really works best on cows being fed for maintenance. Water encourages feed intake, and without it the cattle don't eat as much. that's why snow is not reccomended for growing animals or ones that need to gain weight (ie: calves, bred heifers, old cows).

How do you know if they are getting enough water? Monitor their feed intake. If your cows are eating less than you think they should then they may not be getting enough water. We ran into that issue this fall; the weatehr was pretty cold, our snow was very dry, our hay is dryer than normal and we were feeding more straw. I thnik becasue of these factors the cows couldn't get enough water. They weren't eating enough for a few days; I let them back up for water and the next day they had really started eating again, everything they had left was eaten along with the days feed. I'll have to wait for more moist snow i guess.

 

[ROB]

No experience but a thought. Can a cow eat enough snow to satisfy their water needs? With the conversion of 10" of snow to 1" of water it would take a lot of snow to get 10 gal. per day which is about minimum need. Looking forward to other posts from anyone who has done this.

yellow snow might give you a better conversion :lol2:
ROB

 

[Dave]

You might want to watch out for that yellow snow.

 

[Jalopy]

Bez+ Do you just set the bales around the area in a random fashion and let the cows graze tha bales as they wish? I would be afraid that they would wallow the bales down and lay on them and crap on them. I haven't tried this but it sounds intriguing. If you can do this for $400/hd/year it is a good system. When you bring them into the calving areas how do you handle feeding at that time? I am always willing to learn from anyone on different things that work. Thanks for the info.- JLP

 

[Bez+]

Bez+ Do you just set the bales around the area in a random fashion and let the cows graze tha bales as they wish? I would be afraid that they would wallow the bales down and lay on them and crap on them. I haven't tried this but it sounds intriguing. If you can do this for $400/hd/year it is a good system. When you bring them into the calving areas how do you handle feeding at that time? I am always willing to learn from anyone on different things that work. Thanks for the info.- JLP

I usually put the bales out in groups of 44 as my wagon carries 22 when full.

I separate the bales with distance or with fences. Some folks use electric - we do not need to do that now. We have fenced fields that come to a central point allowing us to use about 5-6 different feeding areas. And we have some fields that allow up to 4 separate feeding areas.

Distance works when the snow is deep - the cows will not leave the feed until it is finished.

When they are finished with one group of bales we move them.

Calving?

No change to the program - just move them as required to new fields with bales set out for feeding. Calves do real well when born in the field.

It is not rocket science - simply keeping hay in front of them.

One year we baled late due to weather and left the bales in the fields - moved a few around to make for nice feed areas and set up electric fences. Never pulled the bales off the field. Cows ate them in place. Cheapest hay year we had in a long time.

Like I say - if you can cut one hour of machinery time per day out of the equation - no matter how cheap you think it is on a daily basis - how much money do you save over a year?

Can you feed your cattle with a tractor for less than 15 bucks each time?

15 bucks an hour running time x half a year - that is - give or take - 2700 bucks - buys a decent bull for you for next year.

As for being under 400 bucks - all I said is we hope to be there - will not know until late March or early April.

Works for us - we have to try new things to move forward - some are scary and work - some are not scary and cost us big bucks.

I am all for this in my area.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[Alberta farmer]

Bez: I figured it cost me $23/cow for tractor costs last year but might be cheaper this year as fuel has dropped off quite a lot. I know last year it was $1200+ to fill up the bulk tank, yesterday $842....and I think Harper sort of promised us another 2 cents a liter when the budget comes down?
I do like the idea of bale grazing though and like you I have about 6 fields all together that are already fenced. Might give it a whirl next year.

 

[Bez+]

Bez: I figured it cost me $23/cow for tractor costs last year but might be cheaper this year as fuel has dropped off quite a lot. I know last year it was $1200+ to fill up the bulk tank, yesterday $842....and I think Harper sort of promised us another 2 cents a liter when the budget comes down?
I do like the idea of bale grazing though and like you I have about 6 fields all together that are already fenced. Might give it a whirl next year.

I am a believer in bale grazing - some pics from the prairies here:

http://ranchers.net/forum/about30860.html

Cheers

Bez+

 

[Bez+]

Winter grazing and old cows in Canada

Not mine but we are very similar

http://ranchers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30889&start=0

Bez+

 

[SRBeef]

What is being called "bale grazing" in this thread is also known as a "hay corral" in some areas.

I did this last winter - set up two long rows 2 round bales wide with the bales about 20 ft apart center to center. On one long side was an existing 5-wire barb fence, parallel to that one on the other side of the 2 bale rows I put up a temporary 2 wire electric fence and also closed one end of this long alley with 2 electric wires.

Through the winter I gradually exposed bales, 2 at a time by moving a cross wire between them. The cross wire had a conductive handle on one end hung on the electrified 2-wire fence and a non-conductive handle on the other end that I hung on the barb wire.

By unhooking the conductive end the cross wire was dead and could be moved. It was supported by a couple Gallagher step in posts pushed into the next unused bales. This was a very quick and easy way of "feeding" the herd.

I did not use round bale feeders over the newly exposed bales however. Maybe I should have but it was a pain trying to get a bale ring over these bales. As a result of not having rings over the exposed bales there was a lot of waste. I tried rolling my heavy steel round bale feeders down the alley but not an easy thing rolling 8 ft steel rings near high voltage electric fencing.

As someone here, maybe Dun, has posted in the past, setting a round bale out without a ring:

Day 1 = the dining room
Day 2= the bed room
Day 3 = the bathroom

Lots of wasted hay but real good mulch and fertility in that alley this year!

I did not do it again this year but bought another cradle feeder. If I had a couple light weight bale rings it might have worked differently. However the light weight plastic pipe bale rings I have seen have also been short lived and fragile. They are also not really light enough to manually lift up and over a 5 x 6 ft bale (unless you are King Kong!). I'm 6'1 230 lb and I still ended up getting the tractor to move my steel bale rings.....

Nice idea but way too much waste when I have to purchase all my round bales. The cradles are moveable and have almost no waste.

If I had enough cattle to eat the exposed bales up completely in maybe one day then maybe it would have worked better. I think there is a basic rule that you should not provide more hay than your cattle can eat in a few hours if you feed without some sort of feed control device like a ring or other feeder. If you have to feed a couple days worth as I do then you must have some limiter to keep the bale from turning into the bedroom then bathroom.

fwiw. Just my experience.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Here' a question for the experienced bale grazers:

I have to move rings from one field to another and the cows refuse to do it. There is a half mile of rocky pasture between the fields. I tried yesterday but the snow is too deep for chained up wheeled equipment. Options include:

1) tell the wife it is a new approved work out routine
2) pack a trail with the snow mobile and start rolling them myself
3) buy more rings
4) ???

 

[SRBeef]

Here' a question for the experienced bale grazers:

I have to move rings from one field to another and the cows refuse to do it. There is a half mile of rocky pasture between the fields. I tried yesterday but the snow is too deep for chained up wheeled equipment. Options include:

1) tell the wife it is a new approved work out routine
2) pack a trail with the snow mobile and start rolling them myself
3) buy more rings
4) ???

Can you hook up a strap or rope to pull/slide the bale rings with the snowmobile, maybe with the rings on their sides? just leave a long enough rope so they don't fall over on you if they tip back down. Maybe you could pull a couple at a time lined up one behind the other.

Rolling bale rings through 1/2 mile of deep snow and rocks is not something most folks would look forward to. Even if you had to make a couple trips with the snowmobile it would be less money than buying new ones which would be my second choice if the sliding doesn't work.

You can buy some lower cost bale rings that might save a lot of hay, especially in your situation of deep snow and very cold. You know they are going to be all over that hay...without rings a lot of it will be waste.

Good luck.

 

[Bez+]

And that is why bale grazers do not use hay feeders - waste of time, effort, and money

Well, at least any bale grazers I know - the whole idea is to not have to use any equipment and to not have to haul bales to fill hey feeders

The benefits of what is left behind far out weigh the loss of hay. Some would disagree - but it has been done far too long in places that feed a lot of bales per cow per winter to not work well.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[mnmtranching]

The only experience I've had is with the six cows spending the Winter in the bales. A little differn't then bale grazing. I had about 50 bales in a couple rows end to end tight. The cows ate down the bales until they could climb on top, then on to the next bale. Eating the choice stuff and crapping and pi$$ing on the rest. Plus, with all the melting and freezing of snow I had a awful mess. If had fed 1 bale at a time it would have been enough to feed 15 cows.

 

[Bez+]

The only experience I've had is with the six cows spending the Winter in the bales. A little differn't then bale grazing. I had about 50 bales in a couple rows end to end tight. The cows ate down the bales until they could climb on top, then on to the next bale. Eating the choice stuff and crapping and pi$$ing on the rest. Plus, with all the melting and freezing of snow I had a awful mess. If had fed 1 bale at a time it would have been enough to feed 15 cows.

Yup - you have to spread them out

Bez+

 

[Stocker Steve]

And that is why bale grazers do not use hay feeders - waste of time, effort, and money
Well, at least any bale grazers I know - the whole idea is to not have to use any equipment and to not have to haul bales to fill hey feeders
The benefits of what is left behind far out weigh the loss of hay. Some would disagree - but it has been done far too long in places that feed a lot of bales per cow per winter to not work well.
Bez+

I usually move rings by hand from one row of bales to the next. I quit buying bull rings since the wife complains they are too heavy.
In this case I have to move rings from one field to another field that is on the other side of a farm.
I think hay is too expensive here not to use rings. Rings costing U$S 240 pay for themselves in about one winter.
I have a neighbor that gets by without, but he is on a tractor once a day feeding thin cows.

 

[angie1]

I usually move rings by hand from one row of bales to the next. I quit buying bull rings since the wife complains they are too heavy.
In this case I have to move rings from one field to another field that is on the other side of a farm.
I think hay is too expensive here not to use rings. Rings costing U$S 240 pay for themselves in about one winter.
I have a neighbor that gets by without, but he is on a tractor once a day feeding thin cows.

Bull rings are too heavy if your wife is having to handle them. I have thought about this off and on all day. The only thing I can think of is to pack a trail and roll them out. Is there anyway you could attach cardboard to one 1/4 of the outside, then tip it on its side and pull it behind the snowmobile. I really think that that would work. Maybe your wife would be willing to sit inside the ring to keep it on its side, just don't let her stick her leg/s in between the bars, ever. Maybe...... I don't know. It might work.