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Dung Beetles - Yahoo!

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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For years we've all been told that dewormers kill dung beetles (except Cydectin).
6 years ago we had a "bug walk" here, with an Entimologist (sp?) from Cornell giving the tour. He was extremely dissappointed that we didn't have any fly larva or pupa in our manure piles or beetles. Said we were hurting our bug population because we dewormed with the wrong products.
Well, we just had another "bug walk" last week with a different guy from Cornell. Turned out that we have LOTS of dung beetles in our piles. We (hubby & I) were looking for a "substantial" sized beetle. Over the years, we've been noticing lots of holes in the piles and they (piles) seem to be dissapearing more & more. We looked thru them & didn't find what we thought were dung beetles. Well, guess there are many, many sizes & colors. Our biggest one was about the size of a ladybug and the smallest were itty bitty - but there were LOTS of them.
I had heard that Cydectin was no longer able to claim to be the only dewormer that didn't kill dung beetles, yet I still see ads on TV. From what we've heard, none of them kill dung beetles.
We have used many products, Ivermec, Ivermec wanna-bees, Safeguard drench, Valbezen drench, Dectomax, etc. We deworm our calves 3 times their first year, and the cows are dewormed 2X a year, drench & pour-on.
Also, there was another thread about Dung Beetles, and someone had posted a site that you could BUY them. We were all laughing about members gathering up their beetles & selling them. Well, this guy advised AGAINST buying them. He said what you buy might very well NOT be able to live in "your" environment.
 

alacattleman

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":3upl40nl said:
For years we've all been told that dewormers kill dung beetles (except Cydectin).
6 years ago we had a "bug walk" here, with an Entimologist (sp?) from Cornell giving the tour. He was extremely dissappointed that we didn't have any fly larva or pupa in our manure piles or beetles. Said we were hurting our bug population because we dewormed with the wrong products.
Well, we just had another "bug walk" last week with a different guy from Cornell. Turned out that we have LOTS of dung beetles in our piles. We (hubby & I) were looking for a "substantial" sized beetle. Over the years, we've been noticing lots of holes in the piles and they (piles) seem to be dissapearing more & more. We looked thru them & didn't find what we thought were dung beetles. Well, guess there are many, many sizes & colors. Our biggest one was about the size of a ladybug and the smallest were itty bitty - but there were LOTS of them.
I had heard that Cydectin was no longer able to claim to be the only dewormer that didn't kill dung beetles, yet I still see ads on TV. From what we've heard, none of them kill dung beetles.
We have used many products, Ivermec, Ivermec wanna-bees, Safeguard drench, Valbezen drench, Dectomax, etc. We deworm our calves 3 times their first year, and the cows are dewormed 2X a year, drench & pour-on.
Also, there was another thread about Dung Beetles, and someone had posted a site that you could BUY them. We were all laughing about members gathering up their beetles & selling them. Well, this guy advised AGAINST buying them. He said what you buy might very well NOT be able to live in "your" environment.
i buy only eared bettles
 

TexasBred

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"Environment"??? I'd think one cow pile would be pretty much like the next. If it got cold he's suppose to have some hid away down deep somewhere. Others have also worried about using IGR mineral and tubs. I've used it for years and a cow pile hardly lasts overnight cause the dung beatles are after it in no time.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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TB - hubby & I had a good chuckle over the "envirement" issue? But, there are definately different TYPES of DB. I would have to have THOUSANDS of my little buggers in one pile to move a whole pile in a day or two. I'm thrilled just to see all the holes that show some is dissapearing.
 

alacattleman

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":3jqpfkc6 said:
TB - hubby & I had a good chuckle over the "envirement" issue? But, there are definately different TYPES of DB. I would have to have THOUSANDS of my little buggers in one pile to move a whole pile in a day or two. I'm thrilled just to see all the holes that show some is dissapearing.
i just noticed em here last year, got to noticing it in my horse manure, one day horse apple's, the next it looked like a little dab of saw dust got down too get a closer look .and sure enough there they were i thought they would be bigger too
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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ala - just noticed your "saying" - eat catfish - that's what we ate last night!
Have a 1/4 acres pond & raise channel catfish. Caught a 6.5# & a 7#. They sure do fight good! taste good too!
 

alacattleman

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":b41x85hb said:
ala - just noticed your "saying" - eat catfish - that's what we ate last night!
Have a 1/4 acres pond & raise channel catfish. Caught a 6.5# & a 7#. They sure do fight good! taste good too!
love em, only eat em when i don't have nothing else to do. cause i aint worth a flip afterward
:cowboy:
 

RICHARDL

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Raised catfish in a cage once in my pond. put in 150 per cage as fingerlings. fillet 150 14-16" catfish both cages. Ended up costing me bout $2 lbs but it sure was good eating. not as fun as catching them on a line But its the eating part i like :cowboy:
 

TexasBred

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":15hvokic said:
TB - hubby & I had a good chuckle over the "envirement" issue? But, there are definately different TYPES of DB. I would have to have THOUSANDS of my little buggers in one pile to move a whole pile in a day or two. I'm thrilled just to see all the holes that show some is dissapearing.

Jeanne...they are hungry little rascals. Guess there is still "strength in numbers". Just have to take smaller bites. Glad to see you have plenty of'em. ;-)
 

TBro

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I was going to start a thread just like this.

I took a walk in the pasture a couple of nights ago and decided to dig in a pattie with a stick.
My bride walked out and found me on one knee playing in poop, grinning and excited.
I found those little tunnelers in every pile I looked in.
I use Cydectin by the way and this is why.
My friend from Arkansas said he is bringing a box and taking some patties home to his place. :lol:

Funny what makes a cowman happy, isn't it?
 

Jogeephus

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":3mdybocb said:
I had heard that Cydectin was no longer able to claim to be the only dewormer that didn't kill dung beetles, yet I still see ads on TV. From what we've heard, none of them kill dung beetles.
We have used many products, Ivermec, Ivermec wanna-bees, Safeguard drench, Valbezen drench, Dectomax, etc. We deworm our calves 3 times their first year, and the cows are dewormed 2X a year, drench & pour-on.

i was at a chemical meeting last year and this subject came up. The speaker just kinda laughed when this came up and told us this was only true if you dropped the dung beetle in the pure solution. Said something about the carrier agent is what killed them and that cydectin used a different carrier which would not kill them like the others. He went on to say that they did get in some trouble about this as it is somewhat false advertising. This sounded reasonable to me since I've never used cydectin and I have three types of beetles and plenty of them. Matter of fact, you can watch a pie hit the ground and give them five minutes and they will be flying to it. I do hope the little buggers are all they are cracked up to be.
 

SRBeef

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I was walking in my current paddock this morning, dodging fresh paddies in the tall grass. I was noticing the fresh paddies had a lot of maybe 1/4" diameter holes in them, lots of holes. And these were all just since Saturday morning (48 hrs max) so those little buggers really got to work fast.

I think my vet applies Ivermectin although I'm not 100% sure what he uses. I let him treat them twice a year, aboiut June 1 and about Nov 1. Whatever he is using doesn't seem to bother the dung beetles at all.

If I drag a pasture and spread the piles a bit does that affect the dung beetles? Seems like there is still enough there for them to work with.

Jim
 

TBro

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If I drag a pasture and spread the piles a bit does that affect the dung beetles?
I was wondering the same thing.
I don't think it would affect them, but I'm not sure.
 

Jogeephus

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TBro":2w45kakz said:
If I drag a pasture and spread the piles a bit does that affect the dung beetles?
I was wondering the same thing.
I don't think it would affect them, but I'm not sure.

I'm pretty sure it won't bother them since they tend to burrow under the ground to lay eggs. On my farm the dung beetles will have burrowed holes through the patties and into the ground in just a few hours. They then carry bits of the pie into the burrows and lay their eggs and move on. The larvae will eat this then emerge and continue the cycle. At the moment, dragging my pastures would be an act of futility.
 

SRBeef

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Jogeephus":27savzb0 said:
... At the moment, dragging my pastures would be an act of futility.

Jo why do you say that? the drought? maybe I missed something here. I have been alternating dragging and clipping every time I rotate the cattle out of a paddock and seems to be working well.

Doing both doesn't work very well so I alternate. Jim
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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"found me on one knee playing in poop, grinning and excited". The Entomoligist that was at our place was a "newbie". The very next day, hubby (who manages a fertilizer & chemical plant) was on a "bug walk" elsewhere with the top entomoligist from Cornell. He asked hubby if he was at the walk the night before & Ken told him it was at our farm. Cornell guy had "assumed" it was. He said the new guy was totally amazed at how all the people were bent down all excited about the beetles! :lol:
Bragging a little: the new guy also told him we really kept our place clean. He couldn't find any pupa or larva stage fly's in our barns. :D
We did discuss dragging the pastures, and he said it wasn't good for them, but there should be plenty of undisturbed piles for them.
Another fact I didn't know was that they are preditors to the fly larva & pupa.
Also, I didn't know they could FLY!!!
 

TexasBred

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Jeanne - Simme Valley":suwqdmvh said:
"found me on one knee playing in poop, grinning and excited". The Entomoligist that was at our place was a "newbie". The very next day, hubby (who manages a fertilizer & chemical plant) was on a "bug walk" elsewhere with the top entomoligist from Cornell. He asked hubby if he was at the walk the night before & Ken told him it was at our farm. Cornell guy had "assumed" it was. He said the new guy was totally amazed at how all the people were bent down all excited about the beetles! :lol:
Bragging a little: the new guy also told him we really kept our place clean. He couldn't find any pupa or larva stage fly's in our barns. :D
We did discuss dragging the pastures, and he said it wasn't good for them, but there should be plenty of undisturbed piles for them.
Another fact I didn't know was that they are preditors to the fly larva & pupa.
Also, I didn't know they could FLY!!!

Jeanne you mean you've never had a "tumblebug" crash land in your hair. They are about like Junebugs. They fly pretty well but apparently mom and dad don't teach them to land. :lol2:
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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If I did, I didn't know what it was!
We thought they were the size of ---- hmmm - not sure what to compare it to - about 5/8" long? Our biggest was like a ladybug. Extension took pics, but I haven't seen any.
 

Jogeephus

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SRBeef":1qbq10mc said:
Jogeephus":1qbq10mc said:
... At the moment, dragging my pastures would be an act of futility.

Jo why do you say that? the drought? maybe I missed something here. I have been alternating dragging and clipping every time I rotate the cattle out of a paddock and seems to be working well.

Doing both doesn't work very well so I alternate. Jim

I was referring to the dung beetles. I have so many now that a pie doesn't last a week and then its gone. What's left is a pile of sand. In all seriousness, if you watch a pie hit the ground the beetles will be there withing minutes. They look like little helicopters coming in. It seems they have also helped with the fly population as my fly population is considerably less as well. This is by far the heaviest population of beetles I think I've ever had.
 
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