Dummy calves

[blackladies]

Is it possible for a bull to produce dummy calves? Seems like I've had more trouble this year than any other from mommas I haven't had trouble from in the past. Sold the bull and bought a different one so hopefully next year is better.

 

[CowboyRam]

Is it possible for a bull to produce dummy calves? Seems like I've had more trouble this year than any other from mommas I haven't had trouble from in the past. Sold the bull and bought a different one so hopefully next year is better.

Do you have a mineral program? I seriously doubt it was the bull. I looked up Missouri and you are deficient in selenium. My vet here has said he has seen a lot of calves that appeared to be dummy calves; his conclusion was that they were deficient in selenium.

 

[Ky hills]

Yes, when I had registered Charolais, I had one bull that would seem to have a percentage of calves that were just big and slow to take off. Had to help sone of them stand up at first and help them find the teats to nurse for a few days. They would do ok once started but very aggravating.

 

[blackladies]

Not a program for mineral from an expert, but they have free choice mineral out at all times. Could possibly be part of the problem but nothing has changed from previous years except the bull and half the hay had higher mold than I would like.

 

[blackladies]

Yes, when I had registered Charolais, I had one bull that would seem to have a percentage of calves that were just big and slow to take off. Had to help sone of them stand up at first and help them find the teats to nurse for a few days. They would do ok once started but very aggravating.

Similar to what I've got going on.

 

[Ky hills]

Is it all or a high percentage of calves or just a few?
What breed cows and bull?
Back when I was having the issue with sone of the calves the vet called them dummy calves and attributed it to them being big calves. Not all our big calves or even the biggest were that way, but it was happening with calves on the bigger end of the scale,
@CowboyRam has a point that mineral deficiency can cause some issues like that and do could other nutritional needs like condition of cows at calving, I would think those that if issues would be affecting that a high percentage of the calves would be that way.
I only had the dummy situation with one certain bull, back then and then to an extent with a few inbred calves more recently, The inbred calves were very small.

 

[blackladies]

Is it all or a high percentage of calves or just a few?
What breed cows and bull?
Back when I was having the issue with sone of the calves the vet called them dummy calves and attributed it to them being big calves. Not all our big calves or even the biggest were that way, but it was happening with calves on the bigger end of the scale,
@CowboyRam has a point that mineral deficiency can cause some issues like that and do could other nutritional needs like condition of cows at calving, I would think those that if issues would be affecting that a high percentage of the calves would be that way.
I only had the dummy situation with one certain bull, back then and then to an extent with a few inbred calves more recently, The inbred calves were very small.

Beefmaster 1st year that he has been a sire for all the calves. Could be a combo of things. Weather, mineral, hay quality. Guess it would be hard to know without using that bull in some kind of university study. Tried to supplement this winter with ddg to make up for poor hay.

 

[Ky hills]

Beefmaster 1st year that he has been a sire for all the calves. Could be a combo of things. Weather, mineral, hay quality. Guess it would be hard to know without using that bull in some kind of university study. Tried to supplement this winter with ddg to make up for poor hay.

We have poor quality hay and I supplement with some feed during the winter. I try to keep out good mineral.
We've had some weak calves some years that are born during the winter that I attributed to nutrition issues.
There's a lot of factors and variables that contribute.

 

[Nick Wagner]

I noticed a correlation between big calves and dumb calves a long time ago. Always thought it was brain damage from being in the birth canal too long, but that's just a guess. One of my goals today is calves that hit the ground running, if I have to help one, both parents likely get a ticket to town. Did have a calf born out of season a couple months ago that I had to help find a teat, first calf heifer that wouldn't stand still and bone chilling cold that day, out in the open, couldn't feel my fingers by the time we were done, calf missing part of her ears but otherwise doing well today. Heifers were at the boy's place last winter, he claims it must be a case of immaculate conception as there was never a bull with them, I have my doubts. Point being if it had been a dumb calf, I'd have had a harder time, got to stack the deck in your own favor when you can. A nod to Kentucky above, there are a lot of variables.

 

[Ky hills]

I noticed a correlation between big calves and dumb calves a long time ago. Always thought it was brain damage from being in the birth canal too long, but that's just a guess. One of my goals today is calves that hit the ground running, if I have to help one, both parents likely get a ticket to town. Did have a calf born out of season a couple months ago that I had to help find a teat, first calf heifer that wouldn't stand still and bone chilling cold that day, out in the open, couldn't feel my fingers by the time we were done, calf missing part of her ears but otherwise doing well today. Heifers were at the boy's place last winter, he claims it must be a case of immaculate conception as there was never a bull with them, I have my doubts. Point being if it had been a dumb calf, I'd have had a harder time, got to stack the deck in your own favor when you can. A nod to Kentucky above, there are a lot of variables.

Yeah when I had Charolais and would have the occasional dummy calf, I attributed it to size and like you said maybe being in the birth canal longer or having a more difficult birth by virtue of its size even if the cow had the calf without any assistance.
I believe the longer the birthing process and any difficulty associated with it can definitely affect the calf, and to an extent the cow too in terms of shedding afterbirth, rebreeding on time etc. Those are my observation and speculations too.
I tend to like more moderate size calves at birth. Too big or too small just seem to have more issues.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Yeah when I had Charolais and would have the occasional dummy calf, I attributed it to size and like you said maybe being in the birth canal longer or having a more difficult birth by virtue of its size even if the cow had the calf without any assistance.
I believe the longer the birthing process and any difficulty associated with it can definitely affect the calf, and to an extent the cow too in terms of shedding afterbirth, rebreeding on time etc. Those are my observation and speculations too.
I tend to like more moderate size calves at birth. Too big or too small just seem to have more issues.

If you go Charolais, Get Charolais with Wyoming Wind is their pedigree. Tiny calves that grow like crazy.

 

[Ky hills]

If you go Charolais, Get Charolais with Wyoming Wind is their pedigree. Tiny calves that grow like crazy.

I was getting out of Charolais around the time LT Wyoming Wind was getting popular. No doubt he was a good bull.
I used several bulls from the LT program via AI and had good calves by them.
Where I got into dummy calves and huge BW was with the popular show bloodline of the time. There was a whole mess of problems with those show cattle lines.

 

[blackladies]

That one sucked a nub till its nose bled, bottle fed it for a week till it decided to start sucking a teat. Wife thought it needed my shirt while I was milking its momma out.

 

[Dusty Britches]

Ever hear of the Madigan Squeeze technique used on foals? It works on calves too. You Tube it.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Ever hear of the Madigan Squeeze technique used on foals? It works on calves too. You Tube it.

We've tried it once with no luck but our embryologist has cows and she swears by it. It's an interesting concept.