driving posts

[bigbull338]

well i finally broke down an called a fence builder.an he is going to come in 2 or 3wks to look at an bid on the fence.we are going to put in 2 an 7/8 drill stem corners an 2 an 7/8 H braces.he said he will drive the drill stem into the ground with the trackhole so we wont need any sack crete.he also said using thinner drill stem is no good.will use the trackhole to ripp out the old fence.as well as clean the fence row.im hoping he will bid it in as low as he can.

 

[novatech]

well i finally broke down an called a fence builder.an he is going to come in 2 or 3wks to look at an bid on the fence.we are going to put in 2 an 7/8 drill stem corners an 2 an 7/8 H braces.he said he will drive the drill stem into the ground with the trackhole so we wont need any sack crete.he also said using thinner drill stem is no good.will use the trackhole to ripp out the old fence.as well as clean the fence row.im hoping he will bid it in as low as he can.

If you are in clay soil driving the posts in works good for line posts. For corner H bracing I always use concrete around the post. It is not so much for securing in it in the hole but more benefit is from the ballast added. The fence is always trying to pull the first post of the brace up out of the ground. When the soil shrinks from around the post in the summer then all you have left is the weight of the post to hold it. If you are not using concrete then I would at least go to the double H brace. Almost all fences look good when first installed. Its what they look like 5 or 10 years latter that you have to worry about.
I would also find out what type of wire he intends on using. Some of the stuff you get today will only last a few years. I am using some second hand Gaucho that was first installed in the 60's. Don't know that you can even find that kind of quality today.

 

[bigbull338]

i questioned him on putting the sackcrete in.an he said that driving the post down 3ft.that theres no way it would ever move or pull out of the ground.said he learned this trick years ago when he hired 2 old boys to build a steel corral for 450 cows.he asked them how meny sacks of sackcrete they needed.an they goes none.they go we gonna use that backhole to pust the posts in the ground.an when we are done nothing will move.an he said nothing moved.i think he will push emm down 4ft.

 

[novatech]

There is a big difference between a coral and a barb wire fence. The coral has no tension, the wire fence has a constant pull for life. He can say whatever he wants as he won't be around in five years to back up what he says.
Most Texas clays are expansive. The clay expands when it is wet and shrinks when it is dry.You can tell what you have . If the ground cracks in the summer then it is expansive.
If the soil shrinks away from the post then what is holding it? The ground looses moisture far deeper than the 3 or 4 feet he is driving the post. This past summer there was ground shrinkage over 24 feet deep.

 

[kenojoe]

I had my fence here in Ky put in about 4 years ago. The 10" end posts were driven in a good 4 '. I now have several that are leaning and 1 coming up. I trusted the fence builder as he has an excellent reputation in the county. He only used a single H brace at the ends which I feel should have been double. Live and learn! I don't know how you fix'em once they start moving. I have read on this site several times that it is a bad idea to use concrete on posts because it causes them to rot faster.

 

[Brute 23]

3' is not near enough for corners... they will pull right up. I would question having that person do any type of work for you. On corrals you can put pipe 2.5-3' like that with no cement. It will hold up... but not for corners.

You have to watch using 2 7/8 for corners also, it will flex and bend when you pull the wires tight. I would not go any less than two Hs. Two full Hs and the third going to ground level is how I see most of them done around here.

 

[cowboy43]

We have been using 2-7/8" for the corners , starting with a 10' joint driving it 5' into ground , then spacing the second 10' for the H brace , the we drive a dead man out 10' with 1 ' above ground level then a brace is welded from the H brace to the deadman. Looks sorta like this H\. ====== ./H except the down brace starts even with the H brace cross brace. We have built 1320 ft spans of 5 barb-wire and 800 ft 49" woven wire fence like this , then checked with a level and there has been no movement on corners at all. The first fence we built driving the post for a woven wire fence with a 2 3/8 " H brace corner, with no dead man , there was movement at the corners, and this was just a 300 ft fence.

 

[cowboy43]

I don't mean to be picky , But I see a lot of pipe described as drill stem. Drill stem is the pipe used on oil drilling rigs usually 3 to 4 inch pipe. It is a real heavy pipe. Tubing is 2-3/8 and 2-7/8 inch , it is used after the well is completed and the rods and pump are run down it to bring the oil up. It is a lighter pipe. It is the majority of pipe you see sold after it has gotten bad and has to be replaced. You can get snoockered buying used tubing if it has been in a corresive well and not treated correctly. I have see new pipe in wells with corresive salt water eat a string of pipe up in a month, also it seems to keep eating it up once it is out of the hole. I bought some 2 years ago and some of it still on the rack is now full of holes.

 

[novatech]

I don't mean to be picky , But I see a lot of pipe described as drill stem. Drill stem is the pipe used on oil drilling rigs usually 3 to 4 inch pipe. It is a real heavy pipe. Tubing is 2-3/8 and 2-7/8 inch , it is used after the well is completed and the rods and pump are run down it to bring the oil up. It is a lighter pipe. It is the majority of pipe you see sold after it has gotten bad and has to be replaced. You can get snoockered buying used tubing if it has been in a corresive well and not treated correctly. I have see new pipe in wells with corresive salt water eat a string of pipe up in a month, also it seems to keep eating it up once it is out of the hole. I bought some 2 years ago and some of it still on the rack is now full of holes.

Sour gas will eat a pipe up in no time. I have some pipe corners I pulled up and re-installed. It was first installed in the 60's.

 

[BRYANT]

If he was doing the job for me they would have cement or he would not do the job.

 

[Kingfisher]

well i finally broke down an called a fence builder.an he is going to come in 2 or 3wks to look at an bid on the fence.we are going to put in 2 an 7/8 drill stem corners an 2 an 7/8 H braces.he said he will drive the drill stem into the ground with the trackhole so we wont need any sack crete.he also said using thinner drill stem is no good.will use the trackhole to ripp out the old fence.as well as clean the fence row.im hoping he will bid it in as low as he can.

If you are in clay soil driving the posts in works good for line posts. For corner H bracing I always use concrete around the post. It is not so much for securing in it in the hole but more benefit is from the ballast added. The fence is always trying to pull the first post of the brace up out of the ground. When the soil shrinks from around the post in the summer then all you have left is the weight of the post to hold it. If you are not using concrete then I would at least go to the double H brace. Almost all fences look good when first installed. Its what they look like 5 or 10 years latter that you have to worry about.
I would also find out what type of wire he intends on using. Some of the stuff you get today will only last a few years. I am using some second hand Gaucho that was first installed in the 60's. Don't know that you can even find that kind of quality today.

Right. Ride around and look how they did the fences in the area that still look stout 10 years later.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't mean to be picky , But I see a lot of pipe described as drill stem. Drill stem is the pipe used on oil drilling rigs usually 3 to 4 inch pipe. It is a real heavy pipe. Tubing is 2-3/8 and 2-7/8 inch , it is used after the well is completed and the rods and pump are run down it to bring the oil up. It is a lighter pipe. It is the majority of pipe you see sold after it has gotten bad and has to be replaced. You can get snoockered buying used tubing if it has been in a corresive well and not treated correctly. I have see new pipe in wells with corresive salt water eat a string of pipe up in a month, also it seems to keep eating it up once it is out of the hole. I bought some 2 years ago and some of it still on the rack is now full of holes.

Sour gas will eat a pipe up in no time. I have some pipe corners I pulled up and re-installed. It was first installed in the 60's.

"Rod cut"... ;-) Take a joint and cut it in half. Then look at the end and make sure you have the same thickness wall all the way around.

Not all of it is bad, alot of times they just pugged out the well. By from a reputable pipe place, not from so and so.

 

[hurleyjd]

i questioned him on putting the sackcrete in.an he said that driving the post down 3ft.that theres no way it would ever move or pull out of the ground.said he learned this trick years ago when he hired 2 old boys to build a steel corral for 450 cows.he asked them how meny sacks of sackcrete they needed.an they goes none.they go we gonna use that backhole to pust the posts in the ground.an when we are done nothing will move.an he said nothing moved.i think he will push emm down 4ft.

Big Bull I think I would find me another fence builder and think that one is trying to shortcut you on the quality fence you need. Let me illustrate and see if you might under stand why. You are going to Jack your tractor up and have a bottle jack with a narrow base, what happens if you just set the jack on the ground it will sink into the ground. Now what do you do to keep that from happening I do not know what you do but here is what I do I find me some wide boards preferable some 2 X 12 boards to put under the jack to spread the weight out on the ground so the jack and boards do not sink. Get the point 2 7/8 is pretty narrow and does not spread the force of the fence pull to the dirt on either side of the hole. Now what happens if we dig a 12 inch diameter hole 36 inches deep and pour sackcrete around the post here we have created an area three times as wide as the 2 7/8 post pushed into the ground. now you have 432 sq inches bearing against the side of the hole with the sackcrete versus only 103.5 with the 2 7/8 dia. pipe pushed into the ground 36 inches. Really you need them 48 inches in the ground. Now if we pushed the 2 7/8 post into the ground 12 foot deep then it might just hold the fence same amount of sq inches as the 3 foot deep with 12 dia hole filled with sackcrete.

 

[JRGidaho`]

i questioned him on putting the sackcrete in..

Now what happens if we dig a 12 inch diameter hole 36 inches deep and pour sackcrete around the post here we have created an area three times as wide as the 2 7/8 post pushed into the ground. .

Have any of you guys tried this one?

If you are augering post holes, here's another one that works real well. Assuming a 12 hole, weld an 8-10" piece of any kind of scrap from the heap about a foot above the bottom of the post. Then weld another similar piece a foot higher perpendicular to the lower piece. Set that in your hole and just tamp back the clay. That post will never move and you eliminate the accelerated rust and rot so often associated with using sackcrete. For larger diameter holes, use a longer anchor piece.

We've done the same thing with treated wood posts by scabbing on a vertical piece of treated 2x4.

When we're crossing a swale or a dip with PowerFlex posts on permanent hi-tensile electric fences, we drill one or more 1/8" hole through the post just a few inches above the point. When you drive the post in with a t-post driver the wires go down along side the post but when you try to lift the post they splay out like an earth anchor and it will take a backhoe to pull them out.

Last year we had to fence across a coulee about 80 ft drop down the sides and 40 ft across the bottom. We used the 1 5/8" x 72" PowerFlex, put a half dozen of these wire anchors through the posts and drove them 3 ft deep. That was good enough to anchor down a couple of hi-tensile wires.

In the old days we would have set at least three wood posts down there and a couple on each slope of the coulee. That would have been an all day job as it would have been all hand dug postholes in that terrain. This way the boys did it in about 30 minutes.

 

[JRGidaho`]

i questioned him on putting the sackcrete in..

When we're crossing a swale or a dip with PowerFlex posts on permanent hi-tensile electric fences, we drill one or more 1/8" hole through the post just a few inches above the point. When you drive the post in with a t-post driver the wires go down along side the post but when you try to lift the post they splay out like an earth anchor and it will take a backhoe to pull them out.

Last year we had to fence across a coulee about 80 ft drop down the sides and 40 ft across the bottom. We used the 1 5/8" x 72" PowerFlex, put a half dozen of these wire anchors through the posts and drove them 3 ft deep. That was good enough to anchor down a couple of hi-tensile wires.

In the old days we would have set at least three wood posts down there and a couple on each slope of the coulee. That would have been an all day job as it would have been all hand dug postholes in that terrain. This way the boys did it in about 30 minutes.

I should have mentioned you put a 12 to 15" piece of hi-tensile wire through each of the holes. Otherwise it sounds a lot like magic drill holes.

 

[cowboy43]

We do not have a power flex fence dealer in our area, I checked out their web page, what length do the post come in and what is the price of them. Also have you had experience driving them in flint rock ?

 

[JRGidaho`]

We do not have a power flex fence dealer in our area, I checked out their web page, what length do the post come in and what is the price of them. Also have you had experience driving them in flint rock ?

They come in lengths 48, 54, 60, 66, & 72". The diameters are 1 1/8" for the 48 & 54". The other three lengths come in both 1 1/4" and 1 5/8". As far as price, there are individual post prices and then pallet prices for lots of 250 or 500 posts. It's best to get a direct quote based on your location.

They ship anywhere in US or Canada. That's why you need a quote that includes freight.

They have a 1" pilot driver for punching a holel through loose rock like chert, flint, etc. If you are dealing with shelf rock then a hammer drill with a masonry bit.

 

[Wewild]

If done right the corner post only see a force at the bottom upward in the direction of the of the next post in the line. The next post should carry the force of the fence across it's height. We haven't used concrete on fencing.