Double Muscled Charolais Bull

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gaurus

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Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
"Calves look great and there were very few cows, which needed c-section."
:shock: :shock:
Yes, the trick would be to use them on cows that don't need a C-Section... :cboy:
 

lithuanian farmer

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Jeanne - Simme Valley said:
"Calves look great and there were very few cows, which needed c-section."
:shock: :shock:

It might sound awful, but it's a reality here. C-sections are far more common in EU countries than US. People raise more muscled and with bigger birth weights animals, so that's always a risk. Especially, when we're talking about the terminal bulls. Some have such high calving ease numbers, that it looks that just a couple lucky cows can calve those calves naturally.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/my-farming-week-kyle-mccall-markethill-redrock-co-armagh-300221
 

lithuanian farmer

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Traditional Charolais can be quite muscular themselves, without being culard. Some examples of traditional charolais in France. From what I've seen Charolais can have a couple different types. The most muscled type is "beef" type. There is also "mix" type, which is also pretty muscled, but can be abit plainer.
https://www.agriaffaires.com/occasion/bovin/31703827/charolaise.html
https://www.agriaffaires.com/occasion/bovin/21979700/charolaise.html
 

WalnutCrest

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lithuanian farmer said:
WalnutCrest said:
Per my French friends, the bottom third (ish) if a registered Aubrac herd is bred to DM Charolais bulls for a branded beef product called Fleur d'Aubrac (the rest if the herds are covered by Aubrac bulls). It's a seasonal product; animals are harvested between 19-24 months of age. The beef sells out very quickly.

And, even with that headwind, Aubracs still lead all French breeds in calving ease ...

I wonder which is easier calved- Aubracs or Salers... Both are leading in it...
DM Charolais are being introduced slowly to other EU countries, but many are very sceptical. Mainly, because that there are many traditional Charolais having similar muscularity to the DM ones and bringing more growth. But there are some, who like DM Charolais. At the moment have seen at least two people using DM char bulls in their commercial herds, with pretty good results. Calves look great and there were very few cows, which needed c-section. They have kept some xbred heifers as replacements and have good results from them too.
I'd personally would try out DM Charolais, but just on a couple cows, not more.
But I don't think that it was that necessary to create DM Charolais. There are plenty of DM breeds already and some traditional Charolais can look like DM.
In Ireland at least, beef bulls are required to be finished under 16months age, under 450kg (995lbs) deadweight and the 3rd fat grade. Have seen that more muscled animals are harder to fit into these requirements.

All the research I've seen has Aubracs slightly ahead of Salers ... and it's been that way for years. Those two breeds are a good bit ahead of the other French breeds. Frankly, it's one reason I got into Aubracs; I didn't want to have to get all nervous at calving time. Living with the cattle is less fun than knowing they're going to be able to get their job done w/o help.
 

lithuanian farmer

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WalnutCrest said:
All the research I've seen has Aubracs slightly ahead of Salers ... and it's been that way for years. Those two breeds are a good bit ahead of the other French breeds. Frankly, it's one reason I got into Aubracs; I didn't want to have to get all nervous at calving time. Living with the cattle is less fun than knowing they're going to be able to get their job done w/o help.

Never searched info about it. I'd have guessed the opposite though... Well, breeders of both breeds can sleep well at night!
One local farmer has pure Aubracs. He had some trouble with heifers, but as we guess, the problem was with poor genetics. Now he plan to use charolais on some of the mature cows. Should work well.
 

Boot Jack Bulls

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gaurus said:
lithuanian farmer said:
But breeding most breeds to be double muscled is very wrong.
True, but nobody is advocating that right? I would say that breeding for extreme terminal sires is what will happen as the world requirements for high protein beef increases.

The world is not getting any bigger but the human population is growing rather fast so more efficient beef production will be required, this means smaller more efficient cows mated to extreme sires to produce feeder calves, this is how the chicken broiler industry has been for the last 40 years. Sure there are backyard chickens that are dual purpose, but you can't raise them for meat only and expect to earn any money as their feed will actually be more expensive than what they put on(they take longer to mature so feed efficiency is very poor) so the inexpensive chicken meat you get at the groceries is due to BroilerX hybrids(the dame lines are dwarfs, the sire are Huge turkey sized), to ramble more on the subject I was thinking that chickens/turkeys get away with that because the dame just lay eggs but in cattle they give birth so one can't use Dwarf dexters cows with Huge Charolais(AI), but then I just remembered that Zebu cows are supposed to control the birth weight of their calf. so perhaps a small size zebu cows(thinking about African zebu are really small and thrifty) and extreme double muscled Chianina terminal sire is the way of the future? Who knows just rambling here. :compute:


Edit.

Now that I think of it, Wulf cattle(perhaps others too, but can't recall at this time) is basically doing that right now, using a Terminal sire(Limousin) on small efficient cows(Jersey) to produce CAB grade beef. They do the entire process, collecting day old calves and finish them also.

Wulf is using homo black, homo polled "Limi" bulls on the Jersey cows the dairy division owns. They target specific traits and market hormone "free" lean meat. The fact is, the bulls the are using are so far from the European standard, it's a stretch to connect the two. They are simply making use of two items they already have plenty of....black Limi bulls and Jersey cows. Comparing their program to breeding DM Chars is also a bit of a stretch...
 
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gaurus

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Boot Jack Bulls said:
The fact is, the bulls the are using are so far from the European standard, it's a stretch to connect the two. They are simply making use of two items they already have plenty of....black Limi bulls and Jersey cows. Comparing their program to breeding DM Chars is also a bit of a stretch...
I agree, I was stretching that a bit, but hey Terminal line bulls on highly efficient cows is where the money is at


I see a bleak future where the terminal bull breeds are so big that can't reproduce on their own or even walk and are cloned( cloned embryos on recipient cows, reared, milked for semen and disposed of it until another clone is required) , most people don't want a centralized beef production system with genetics owned by big corporations like the Poultry Broiler industry or the Swine industry but it's inevitable. Or I am to pessimistic? I am to old to see this happen any ways.
 

Boot Jack Bulls

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You are probably very accurate in your assessment of the future of beef production. It's just a matter of when.
 

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