Don't overfeed bottle calves

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ufo_chris

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Ok ,I'm kinda new myself but found all this out recently and wanted to share with other newbies!
I had my 10 day old bottlecalf come down with mild abomasal bloat.(can be deadly)
My vet said it is caused a lot of times from feeding too much milk replacer (or even milk) or just in a calf that really likes their milk.
I was giving 3 pints 3 x a day, he said better make it 2 1/2 pints ,3 times a day is better even after the first week. Easier to digest this way.
The recommendation I read was 1 pint for evey 10 lbs a day, so a 60 lb. Calf (about mine) would get 6 pints . But milk replacer says 2 quarts 2x a day ( 8 pints).
And I red a few posts where people were giving quite a bit.
I was mixing mine on the weak side so it was like 8 pints with a bit more water.
So it is actually better to give a little less more often. (I guess this is more how they drink off their mom too,makes sense it would be better.)
I know scours is a problem with too much too so I was being careful not to give too much, but I guess just a little bit was too much.
Nothing is for sure ,but I will feed him a bit less just to make sure.
He did start eating a few starter pellets when I put him in his mouthbefor he got sick and he has water at all times.
He's on electolytes for a day,1/2 tomorrow,aquacillin and reglan.
Vet says he should be ok, I sure hope so.
 

TexasBred

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Chris the vet told you right. Multiple small mills are better than 1 or 2 big meals. Some just don't have the time to feed 3-4 times a day... Just don't feed more total milk replacer per day than recommended. Give it a little straight water if it's still hungry and if it will drink it.
 

TexasBred

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chippie":26d0y7up said:
Don't dilute the milk replacer. Mix as instructed. Good luck with him.

It doesn't hurt as long as you don't dilute it to the point of defeating your purpose. We're usually just using a WAG to determine bodyweight anyway. Some disagree with I've always diluted milk replacer when feeding a scouring calf but made sure he always got the needed amount of water and added electrolytes.
 

novaman

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ufo_chris":36met0pc said:
I was giving 3 pints 3 x a day, he said better make it 2 1/2 pints ,3 times a day is better even after the first week. Easier to digest this way.
The recommendation I read was 1 pint for evey 10 lbs a day, so a 60 lb. Calf (about mine) would get 6 pints . But milk replacer says 2 quarts 2x a day ( 8 pints).
And I red a few posts where people were giving quite a bit.
I was mixing mine on the weak side so it was like 8 pints with a bit more water.
You don't mention how much powder you're mixing or what kind of milk replacer you're feeding. My calves are usually closer to 100 pounds so if your calf is actually 60 pounds you may have been overfeeding. However, I feed my calves about 1.25 pounds of 20/20 at 10 pints per day starting on day 4. I used to do 1 pound at 8 pints and it always seemed like the calves were slow to take off. Since I upped it the calves have been much growthier.
 

larryshoat

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novaman":2b6xjb10 said:
ufo_chris":2b6xjb10 said:
I was giving 3 pints 3 x a day, he said better make it 2 1/2 pints ,3 times a day is better even after the first week. Easier to digest this way.
The recommendation I read was 1 pint for evey 10 lbs a day, so a 60 lb. Calf (about mine) would get 6 pints . But milk replacer says 2 quarts 2x a day ( 8 pints).
And I red a few posts where people were giving quite a bit.
I was mixing mine on the weak side so it was like 8 pints with a bit more water.
You don't mention how much powder you're mixing or what kind of milk replacer you're feeding. My calves are usually closer to 100 pounds so if your calf is actually 60 pounds you may have been overfeeding. However, I feed my calves about 1.25 pounds of 20/20 at 10 pints per day starting on day 4. I used to do 1 pound at 8 pints and it always seemed like the calves were slow to take off. Since I upped it the calves have been much growthier.

I think you are right. It is imperative to have a good all milk, milk repalcer. The only trouble with bloat we ever had, was a few years back I foolishly tried some wheat protien milk, what a disaster.

Larry
 
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ufo_chris

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I use the TSC Dumor supreme medicated . (my vet says that's fine) it's a 20/20 ,mostly whey,little soy.
It says to use 6-7.5 oz for 3 pints, I mixed it at 6.5 - 7.
My calf is a Highland/Angus (and a twin) that's why he's smaller.
Vet thinks he was bigger then 55 lbs at birth.
Does the measuring for weight work the same for a young calf?
He is doing a lot better ,has all his energy and hunger back,praise the lord!
His next feeding he'll go back to all milk replacer so I'll cut it back to 2 1/2 pts. ,3 x a day.
So I'll need between 5 and 6.5 oz. powder.
He's eating calf pellets if I hand feed them to him too.
Larry, did you loose any calves? How did you treat them?
Chris
 

larryshoat

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Chris, I think you need better milk replacer, no soy. Go to a real feed store, maybe Harvest Land or something similar and get a good milk replacer, Kalmbach makes a good one, something like that.

Larry
 

DavisBeefmasters

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larryshoat":2ahoasdy said:
Chris, I think you need better milk replacer, no soy. Go to a real feed store, maybe Harvest Land or something similar and get a good milk replacer, Kalmbach makes a good one, something like that.

Larry

:nod: :nod: :nod: If you do switch you will notice a HUGE difference... beef cattle do not (IMHO and my vet's humble opinion as well) process soy protein as efficiently or as needed to give the little bugger the best chance at growth, health, etc.
 

dun

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DavisBeefmasters":32g3k0gh said:
larryshoat":32g3k0gh said:
Chris, I think you need better milk replacer, no soy. Go to a real feed store, maybe Harvest Land or something similar and get a good milk replacer, Kalmbach makes a good one, something like that.

Larry

:nod: :nod: :nod: If you do switch you will notice a HUGE difference... beef cattle do not (IMHO and my vet's humble opinion as well) process soy protein as efficiently or as needed to give the little bugger the best chance at growth, health, etc.
BINGO. The soy is to make the protein look good to the buyer. Once a calf is a couple of months old they seem to be able to use it but young guys can starve on the pure soy milk replacers.
The difference in cost between the 100% milk/milk byproducts replacers and the others is the old deal of "pay me now or pay me later"
 
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ufo_chris

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Really? Even with just a little soy in it? It is mainly whey.
Why would someone like TSC make &sell it?
Do we need to write them and complain?
I found out today that you can buy syringes with needles at Rite Aid cheaper then TSC !
(I'm sure they are cheaper mail order but I needed some now)
I usually buy my feed at the feed store because it's cheaper . I bought the TSC Milk replacer cause it was Sat. afternoon and no feedstore is open.
I'll have to go tomorrow and get some.
Should I change it slowly though?
What about medicated if you're not worried about withdraw time?
Thanks,Chris
 

DavisBeefmasters

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No need to complain -- soy will be there to make the protein content look good and lower the cost per bag

No need to slowly transition -- do it straight up and your calf will greatly appreciate it.

We only have 1 feed store here that carries all milk milk replacer without soy and they keep it in 2 versions, medicated and non-medicated.

We don't use medicated simply because it costs a few pennies more and I don't like to use medicines when not required.

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While you're at it I would highly recommend getting a few other items:
1. Optimil Complete (it may go by the name of ScourGuard) --> it is milk replacer and scour meds that you feed for 4 to 6 feedings instead of milk replacer if your bottle calf scours... really good stuff instead of messing with scour medicine waiting 2 to 4 hours then feeding milk replacer -- quite a timesaver and more importantly IT WORKS

2. A few packages of KickStart --> electrolyte packages that can be used instead of milk replacer for some instant energy to snap that little bugger out of a funk should it need it...

3. 1-2 tubes of probiotic paste (the 1 dose size) and give that AFTER administering any scour meds (AFTER the 2 to 3 day regimen of treatment) -- it helps stimulate the good bugs in their stomach to get them going again

4. Mineral oil and the proper size tubing (3/8" O.D.) and a 12" piece of PVC pipe from your barn -- mandatory tools for tube feeding if needed --> do a search on this site for the proper procedures so you don't tube into the lungs and you make sure you're in the stomach first.

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Good luck and good job to date.
 

TexasBred

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ufo_chris":1ykwdd0p said:
Really? Even with just a little soy in it? It is mainly whey.
Why would someone like TSC make &sell it?
Do we need to write them and complain?
I found out today that you can buy syringes with needles at Rite Aid cheaper then TSC !
(I'm sure they are cheaper mail order but I needed some now)
I usually buy my feed at the feed store because it's cheaper . I bought the TSC Milk replacer cause it was Sat. afternoon and no feedstore is open.
I'll have to go tomorrow and get some.
Should I change it slowly though?
What about medicated if you're not worried about withdraw time?
Thanks,Chris

Chris, almost anyone has feed, milk replacer, etc. cheaper than TSC. I've never understood why they are so high other than "someone else makes the feed", usually Purina. Your milk replacer will have "some" whey in it as well as other milk solids but you won't know how much because the bag doesn't tell you and t hey old method of listing ingredients in descending order of inclusion no longer applies. A lot of the good stuff is included only in high enough amounts to allow them to legally list them as ingredients. I'd get a good 20/20 non medicated all milk product...there are some good ones out there but I don't know what's available in your area. Some of the best calf raisers in the country use soy based milk replacer and do a great job but they also spend all their time with those calves...those of us that don't do it alot the "all milk" milk replacers make the job easier as make us look "great". Best of luck to you.
 
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