Doesn't Look Good

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Caustic Burno

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Big Thicket East Texas
Looking at cost to maintain a cow per day.
With the increase cost of fuel, fencing, and fertilizer my preliminary numbers are looking like a 1.15 a day.
Old Belle is now costing 419.75 dollars versus 365 a year to maintain.
With current calf prices and production cost this is going to take sharp management of your calf crop to turn a profit.
This will make the push for higher weaning weights versus quality even greater.
There are several strategies that I am currently looking at to reduce inputs.
 
I'm right there with you CB after some of the checks I had to write last weekend, the writing is on the wall for this coming year and I'm trying my darndest for it not to be in RED :shock:

Michele
 
Caustic Burno":19v527kz said:
Looking at cost to maintain a cow per day.
With the increase cost of fuel, fencing, and fertilizer my preliminary numbers are looking like a 1.15 a day.
Old Belle is now costing 419.75 dollars versus 365 a year to maintain.
With current calf prices and production cost this is going to take sharp management of your calf crop to turn a profit.
This will make the push for higher weaning weights versus quality even greater.
There are several strategies that I am currently looking at to reduce inputs.

:lol: I just started a thread asking these kind of questions before I read this one. Guess I should read before talking.
 
Caustic Burno":z60myv01 said:
Looking at cost to maintain a cow per day.
With the increase cost of fuel, fencing, and fertilizer my preliminary numbers are looking like a 1.15 a day.
Old Belle is now costing 419.75 dollars versus 365 a year to maintain.
With current calf prices and production cost this is going to take sharp management of your calf crop to turn a profit.
This will make the push for higher weaning weights versus quality even greater.
There are several strategies that I am currently looking at to reduce inputs.

yep, and its kind of discouraging too. but, things have been worse. a couple of things i am looking into doing is cutting back on my stocking rate so that i can cut my feed bill (hay) per head and holding my calves a little longer to make them dollar up more, and hope that i can still turn a profit.

it is hard for me to know how much to cut back on my stocking rate, but the drought has convinced me to do so. my hay bill has been too high. the plan is to be ready for a drought, and if we get good rain and grass is good, then cut the hay. if things get bad, then hopefully i will have enough grass to maintain what i have at the lower rate.

jmo

jt
 
jt":1rv1xub7 said:
Caustic Burno":1rv1xub7 said:
Looking at cost to maintain a cow per day.
With the increase cost of fuel, fencing, and fertilizer my preliminary numbers are looking like a 1.15 a day.
Old Belle is now costing 419.75 dollars versus 365 a year to maintain.
With current calf prices and production cost this is going to take sharp management of your calf crop to turn a profit.
This will make the push for higher weaning weights versus quality even greater.
There are several strategies that I am currently looking at to reduce inputs.

yep, and its kind of discouraging too. but, things have been worse. a couple of things i am looking into doing is cutting back on my stocking rate so that i can cut my feed bill (hay) per head and holding my calves a little longer to make them dollar up more, and hope that i can still turn a profit.

it is hard for me to know how much to cut back on my stocking rate, but the drought has convinced me to do so. my hay bill has been too high. the plan is to be ready for a drought, and if we get good rain and grass is good, then cut the hay. if things get bad, then hopefully i will have enough grass to maintain what i have at the lower rate.

jmo

jt

I have been thinking along those same lines jt.

I also don't know how many I should have either but I am keeping it very low. The drought has me being very cautious.

I don't want to have to buy hay again this year. It is too high.

I am not planning on fertilizing any. It is also just too high.

What strategies are you looking at CB?
 
Yep. 34-0-0 was $390 a ton this week. I got the P and K out last month at $375 a ton but hay is still going to cost me plenty to make this year. And I still need the rain or the fert cost will be lost.
 
Caustic Burno":7qiadl0l said:
Looking at cost to maintain a cow per day.
With the increase cost of fuel, fencing, and fertilizer my preliminary numbers are looking like a 1.15 a day.
Old Belle is now costing 419.75 dollars versus 365 a year to maintain.
With current calf prices and production cost this is going to take sharp management of your calf crop to turn a profit.
This will make the push for higher weaning weights versus quality even greater.
There are several strategies that I am currently looking at to reduce inputs.

I have done the same thing at my end.

Caustic - the greatest cost to most of us is things like inputs.

Example - sick calf - one trip from the veterinarian and a consultation - plus a couple of drugs - you now are in the negative zone - in my area the calf gets one day to shape up or it usually is gone. Profit is gone. Toss that calf - even if you give it away or kill it - you are money ahead.

Anyone keeping and doctoring a sick calf for a week has a fine heart but does not run a calculator very well.

Example - need to cut a calf out. Worse if it is your "best cow". Assisted a neighbour in a problem recently - called the veterinarian - bill for a calf cut out - just over 350 bucks. Decided to not cut the calf out. Fed the cow to the coyotes for 35 cents. Best cow or not, there are a lot of good cows out there.

Example - bottle calves. Time you are finished the calf usually has 2 bags of replacer - often some medication and perhaps one visit from the veterinarian. We no longer keep them - and most here will not buy them - so we give them away if no one will buy them - cheaper in the long run.

Example - grain costs are up. We are going to straight hay and grass - I plan to skip the grain issue completely unless it comes here for free. We pretty much did that last winter and the cows managed just fine.

Example - fertilizer is up and so is fuel. We now winter pasture our cattle on the summer pasture or grain land. The ground is frozen, the snow is deep and I no longer have to spread manure in the spring. Used to spend a lot of money spreading manure - now I spend zero. Combining this with a zero straw purchase and forcing cattle to bed on waste hay has actually not only saved us money - it makes us money. I now no longer worry about waste hay - the pencil proved our method works for us.

Example - vaccination programs - do not do the same thing evry year after year after year - actually have a veterinarian herd health check - it may save - no - it WILL save you money in the long run.

In the end, our cattle live and reproduce at only a feed/grass cost to us or they are gone.

I am not a rocket scientist - Aaron does this already and I am simply copying him - he also runs Herfs. This spring we are putting them in the willows - they will kill them and save me thousands that I would have spent in land clearing. It will take a couple of extra years to clear that land but it will not cost me 10 grand to do it.

We will never allow a downer cow to stay down more than a day because invariably it is simply an additional cost to us. Get up or I shoot you.

Our cows stay healthy or we dispose of them - sell or shoot.

Sounds heartless, but we have to feed or supplement hay for nearly 7 1/2 to 8 months of the year. They get sick we shoot them if we cannot help them real fast.

Live and pay your way - or get sick and we shoot you - it has reduced our costs dramatically and this past year we finally hit the black after 4 years of straight losses.

Folks will be divided into two camps - those in it for the business and those in it because they need a place to spend money. I do not have money, so you can tell where I am situated.

Fortunately our genetics have been designed for this over the past 75 years or so. Too bad I was forced into near liquidation during the tough years - but in fact I should have sold them all and rebought back in - I would actually have been money ahead. BUt the cows we have now are pretty much "push button producers" and it is truly rare to have a problem.

It is a business - there are few hardware store owners that will take on an extra job to subsidize filling the nuts and bolts section of the store. If we are to succeed we need to look at the business aspect of the process.

I did not learn that fast enough - but trust me it is there now. Unfortunately there are many who will not do this and it will cause them a great deal of hardship.

Outa' here.

Have a good one,

Bez>
 
I haven't spent a cent on fertilizer in probably 15 years-we've been doing most of what Bez says for a long time. Some call that HRM management I just was cheap before it became trendy-my vet just shakes his head when I rifle problems but he has a standing offer to come get them for free if he wants. We never have less than 500 head of cattle at anyone time so not a huge outfit but not a hobby rancher either. The biggest hurdle you'll face in changing management practices is the neighbors and coffee row-it's more acceptable to all drown together than for somebody to grab a plank and try to swim. BSE sharpened everybody's pencils REAL fast up here.
 
As most of you know I call myself a hobby guy, cattle does not provide my living income. With what I have experienced over the last few years in my cattle hobby I really feel for you guys that provide the bulk of our nations beef. Here, our hay price started the season last year 50% higher than the year before. Before winter was over we paid over 100% more for hay than we did the year before. I think it's like gas prices, I don't see the price of hay going down at all.... for any reason. In my business, that provides our living, I'm always trying to figure out how to cut cost, but there are times that the only thing to do is adjust pricing so we generate a higher income.

I would love to hear some opinions on how to generate higher cattle prices, meaning is there anything cattle people (not hobby people) can do to have more control of the prices? Other then to lobby your state and Fed governments.



Alan
 
cowboyup216":3ofdzkhc said:
I really hate it for yall in texas and out west that are paying something like $80.00 per bale of 4X4 decent to poor quality hay. I feel bad because I just bought 200 4X5 bales of orchardgrass, clover, and Fescue mixed hay for $10.00 per bale. This is first cutting hay no less. Hasnt even really been cut yet. The guy usually has nearly 800 bales this size so he sold me 200 of them.

Rub it in.
 
cowboyup216":2q9ghyas said:
I really hate it for yall in texas and out west that are paying something like $80.00 per bale of 4X4 decent to poor quality hay. I feel bad because I just bought 200 4X5 bales of orchardgrass, clover, and Fescue mixed hay for $10.00 per bale. This is first cutting hay no less. Hasnt even really been cut yet. The guy usually has nearly 800 bales this size so he sold me 200 of them.

Why would he sell it so cheap? It costs me more than $12 to put up a 4 X 5 round Bale on my own land. I would charge $20 to put it up on your land this year. Use to be $15. But fuel cost kills that.
 
Fertilizer cost is the biggest factor in my hay production. It should be a bumper crop with all this rain. Fuel prices will affect it a little, but no comparison to fertilizer.

I half expect beef supply to diminish because of all the culling the past two years. I've got grass for another 100 head now. 200 more would be marginal.

The Hubam clover is waist deep. Winter wheat and rye are looking really good. Cows are butter ball fat.

The coastal fields are growing really well.
 
Gate Opener":2zsv4czk said:
jt":2zsv4czk said:
Caustic Burno":2zsv4czk said:
Looking at cost to maintain a cow per day.
With the increase cost of fuel, fencing, and fertilizer my preliminary numbers are looking like a 1.15 a day.
Old Belle is now costing 419.75 dollars versus 365 a year to maintain.
With current calf prices and production cost this is going to take sharp management of your calf crop to turn a profit.
This will make the push for higher weaning weights versus quality even greater.
There are several strategies that I am currently looking at to reduce inputs.

yep, and its kind of discouraging too. but, things have been worse. a couple of things i am looking into doing is cutting back on my stocking rate so that i can cut my feed bill (hay) per head and holding my calves a little longer to make them dollar up more, and hope that i can still turn a profit.

it is hard for me to know how much to cut back on my stocking rate, but the drought has convinced me to do so. my hay bill has been too high. the plan is to be ready for a drought, and if we get good rain and grass is good, then cut the hay. if things get bad, then hopefully i will have enough grass to maintain what i have at the lower rate.

jmo

jt

I have been thinking along those same lines jt.

I also don't know how many I should have either but I am keeping it very low. The drought has me being very cautious.

I don't want to have to buy hay again this year. It is too high.

I am not planning on fertilizing any. It is also just too high.

What strategies are you looking at CB?

Looking at going back to rotaional grazing.
Culling harder than I normally do and stockpiling more grass for fall reducing hay demand.
Sell Surplus hay.
Anything that misses calving at 12 months cull one slips to 12 1/2 or 13 your out here.
Using only the tractors with 2 speed pto's allowing to operate at lower rpms to save fuel.
Park the big tractors except for hay work go back to 35 hp fwd for routine work, take's longer still more fuel effiecent.
Start splitting fence post again.
Poison Hogs.
Liquid fertilizer versus grainular.
Swapping Bulls with neighbor reducing cost of replacements we can work the bulls up to 8 or 10 years old versus 4 to 5 .
 
Can some one tell me about switching to Liquid fertilizer versus grainular?
what kind to use and how to put it out. What rate do i use. When do I put it out. How ofted do I put it out? ect ect ect??????
 
Northern Rancher":31d5duz8 said:
I haven't spent a cent on fertilizer in probably 15 years

I be wishin I could be sayin that.Around here no fertilizer = little or no hay to speak of. I let meself get talked inta not fertilizin one year and got me about 35% of the normal yield.
28-0-0 liquid urea went for about 270 a ton this year.
 
backhoeboogie":3n91dbil said:
Fertilizer cost is the biggest factor in my hay production. It should be a bumper crop with all this rain. Fuel prices will affect it a little, but no comparison to fertilizer.

I half expect beef supply to diminish because of all the culling the past two years. I've got grass for another 100 head now. 200 more would be marginal.

The Hubam clover is waist deep. Winter wheat and rye are looking really good. Cows are butter ball fat.

The coastal fields are growing really well.

I agree Fertilizer is going to be a killer this year..

My neighbor cut his wheat afew days ago..BIG THICK windrows, he'll get a good yield.
 
RE: Determining cost of keeping a cow per yer...

I have been trying to figure out how to value the grass that I graze in my cow/calf operation to figure out exactly what each of my cows cost per year... what is a good way to do it.

For example assume your only cost was $100 an acre rent for the grazing season, no fertilizer, vet, breeding, ect. just rent. If you run 20 cow calf pairs on 20 acres during the green season.... would you say it cost you 100 bucks per cow, or value it over 40 animals and call it 50 dollars?

I know this is pretty basic stuff but just curious how others do it
 
JMichal":2xljmyze said:
cowboyup216":2xljmyze said:
I really hate it for yall in texas and out west that are paying something like $80.00 per bale of 4X4 decent to poor quality hay. I feel bad because I just bought 200 4X5 bales of orchardgrass, clover, and Fescue mixed hay for $10.00 per bale. This is first cutting hay no less. Hasnt even really been cut yet. The guy usually has nearly 800 bales this size so he sold me 200 of them.

Why would he sell it so cheap? It costs me more than $12 to put up a 4 X 5 round Bale on my own land. I would charge $20 to put it up on your land this year. Use to be $15. But fuel cost kills that.

I wouldn't think it would cost $5 more for fuel to roll a bale of hay.
 

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