Does anyone care about good angus heads anymore?

[artesianspringsfarm]

Steve Campbell and his solo cup videos/presentations are about as close to understanding them as I've found.

That's pretty much how I look at them too, bulls and cows. I'm trying to learn how to pick bull calves to grow into bulls.

This is one of two that I decided to keep intact and see what happens this year. This is by far the more masculine of the two and I include the shape and width of head in that. He is 7 months old, just weaned in this picture:

 

[ClinchValley86]

This is one of two that I decided to keep intact and see what happens this year. This is by far the more masculine of the two and I include the shape and width of head in that. He is 7 months old, just weaned in this picture:

View attachment 52942

We will never know what we've got if we don't let some grow.

Share his progress with us. I'll enjoy watching him grow and change.

 

[Katpau]

View attachment 52854
This is one of the ugliest heads on an angus bull I think I've ever seen. Yet the popularity of him on social media is through the roof. I don't understand what people want anymore

So what is wrong with this head? I have no idea who this bull is, or where he is popular on social media, but his head looks just fine to me. I admit that I am sometimes puzzled by pictures of show cattle that others consider attractive, so maybe it is a show thing? Is this bull popular as a show bull, a maternal bull or a terminal beef bull? Is he popular because of calving ease, the growth of his calves, carcass traits, the production, feet, udders on his daughters, or maybe because his calves win in the show ring? I am curious about why he is popular, so I would love to know who he is. My own herd has cows with many different faces. Long narrow ones, short wide ones, and lots in between. I can't say I have ever chosen a replacement based on what her head looked like. There are too many other qualities that I consider much more important.

I do find those cute little faces on Jersey cows to be the prettiest in my own opinion, but the cow that probably did the most good for my herd, had a long narrow face that I thought was pretty unattractive when I bought her with a small group of Angus heifers back in 2001. She was my least favorite in that group, and I paid little attention to her for quite a few years, until I started looking back through my records. When she reached 17, and was carrying her 16th calf, I sold her due to her age. Many of my very best producers descend from her.

I would really be interested in having the original poster put up a picture of a bull that has an attractive head in his opinion, and explain what makes that head more attractive.

 

[Travlr]

This is one of two that I decided to keep intact and see what happens this year. This is by far the more masculine of the two and I include the shape and width of head in that. He is 7 months old, just weaned in this picture:

View attachment 52942

Are you looking for honesty? I'll make the leap that you are or you wouldn't have posted the picture.

He'd make an average steer in a herd of less than average cows. There are only three things going for him. He isn't post legged, he has a straight back, and he looks healthy. Other than that he's lightly muscled, short bodied, and has substantial leg under him. The leg can be attractive on open range where a bull needs to cover ground to do his job, but I don't see that as much value in upstate NY.

 

[simme]

That's a d**n fine animal...

Thanks. One of those less than pure american simmentals. Back 4 generations on the sire side, there is an angus bull. 5 generations back on the dam's side, there is a commercial angus cow. Of course, he still identifies as a simmental and has sired some pretty nice calves.

I know that the old simmental bull 600U is a favorite of @kenny thomas . He is in a lot of pedigrees. I checked this HighLife bull's pedigree. 600U appears at least 21 times just on the sire's side (maybe more if I had clicked more, but got tired of clicking and counting). I did not count how many times 600U shows up on his dam's side. Probably at least 10 or so there. I read that the gene pool is narrow (especially in the angus breed) due to excessive use of AI, but 30 or so instances of one bull in a pedigree does seem like a lot. But does not seem to have done any harm here.

There is one odd thing about the bull calf I have that is sired by this 600U descended bull. He has a strangely marked muzzle. My daughter named him QR. Maybe there is an issue with the gene pool. But when I scan his muzzle, I get directed to a black hereford website. Only that last sentence is a joke, rest is correct best i know.

 

[Travlr]

Thanks. One of those less than pure american simmentals. Back 4 generations on the sire side, there is an angus bull. 5 generations back on the dam's side, there is a commercial angus cow. Of course, he still identifies as a simmental

600U appears at least 21 times just on the sire's side (maybe more if I had clicked more, but got tired of clicking and counting). I did not count how many times 600U shows up on his dam's side. Probably at least 10 or so there. I read that the gene pool is narrow (especially in the angus breed) due to excessive use of AI, but 30 or so instances of one bull in a pedigree does seem like a lot. But does not seem to have done any harm here.

Yeah, that's a lot. I know a lot of people that see great bulls and forgive the lack of genetic diversity, but I wonder.

There are animals that seem just fine with a severe bottleneck. Maybe cattle will be okay. Not sure the risk justifies the chances we are taking. Wouldn't it be a hoot if sometime in the future Corriente was the breed that saved the industry?

 

[simme]

Wouldn't it be a hoot if sometime in the future Corriente was the breed that saved the industry?

Maybe invest now. Think microsoft, google, crypto, even walmart. Got to get in early to do best. If you need help putting together a group of corr's, you know who to contact. I am just going to tough it out with these american simmys.

 

[Travlr]

Maybe invest now. Think microsoft, google, crypto, even walmart. Got to get in early to do best. If you need help putting together a group of corr's, you know who to contact. I am just going to tough it out with these american simmys.

Oh mannnnn... If I only had some kudzu...

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

Travlr, I can promise you I wasnt looking for anything. That said, anyone that shares a picture better be ok with people's opinion of it. There are plenty more things going for that calf that you wouldnt have a clue about from where you sit but that's ok. You don't know his background, you don't know my goals, and you dont know if that type of calf with that background would succesfully produce my goals. I think he will, but I could also be wrong and have been before. Neither me, nor his mom (pictured here with her calf from last year) are offended.

Are you looking for honesty? I'll make the leap that you are or you wouldn't have posted the picture.

He'd make an average steer in a herd of less than average cows. There are only three things going for him. He isn't post legged, he has a straight back, and he looks healthy. Other than that he's lightly muscled, short bodied, and has substantial leg under him. The leg can be attractive on open range where a bull needs to cover ground to do his job, but I don't see that as much value in upstate NY.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

I should add, he definitely does not have a ton of leg under him. He will be lucky if he's a frame 4 bull when he's mature. Oh, and if he's average, you'd really hate the ones I took the nuts off of. . Glad my buyer liked them and that they will finish ok for him and for me.

 

[cattletalk]

So what is wrong with this head? I have no idea who this bull is, or where he is popular on social media, but his head looks just fine to me. I admit that I am sometimes puzzled by pictures of show cattle that others consider attractive, so maybe it is a show thing? Is this bull popular as a show bull, a maternal bull or a terminal beef bull? Is he popular because of calving ease, the growth of his calves, carcass traits, the production, feet, udders on his daughters, or maybe because his calves win in the show ring? I am curious about why he is popular, so I would love to know who he is. My own herd has cows with many different faces. Long narrow ones, short wide ones, and lots in between. I can't say I have ever chosen a replacement based on what her head looked like. There are too many other qualities that I consider much more important.

I do find those cute little faces on Jersey cows to be the prettiest in my own opinion, but the cow that probably did the most good for my herd, had a long narrow face that I thought was pretty unattractive when I bought her with a small group of Angus heifers back in 2001. She was my least favorite in that group, and I paid little attention to her for quite a few years, until I started looking back through my records. When she reached 17, and was carrying her 16th calf, I sold her due to her age. Many of my very best producers descend from her.

I would really be interested in having the original poster put up a picture of a bull that has an attractive head in his opinion, and explain what makes that head more attractive.

Sure thing. I had to hunt for a bit to find some where it's at least turned a little towards the camera to compare. These are shorter, better proportioned and more masculine. The original one has a long head and it even looks distorted to me with a pretty low ear set. It's very feminine although the dam has a gorgeous head as she is pictured, too. Original one is for sale this spring so not proven but has amassed attention in his advertising whereas I can't see why anyone would want that as he won't be a cheap bull. Marketed as maternal. I agree I don't have all super pretty cows but I'd sure like to. I wouldn't actively try to perpetuate feminine heads on bulls and masculine heads on females.

 

[cattletalk]

When I am buying cows (I will be on Wednesday) the head would be the last thing I look at. And would not making a bit of difference on my bidding.

It wouldn't matter to me either if they're to fatten. If they're to breed then we sure cannot agree.

 

[Dave]

It wouldn't matter to me either if they're to fatten. If they're to breed then we sure cannot agree.

They are bred cows. One and done broken mouth cows. We calf them out in the next couple months. In late August the cows all go to the kill plant. The calves all go out on regrowth in the hay meadows until that is all gone and then they take a trip to town. So what I look for is are they sound, will they calf in the right window, and how well will the cows hang up. They can be pretty ugly and fit the requirements. In fact ugly is actually good because I get them cheaper.

 

[Katpau]

Cattletalk
Who was the bull in the original picture. You can private message me, if you would rather not say here. I am very curious.
The original picture you posted is at a different angle than the last two pictures, so I am not very good at comparing them. I also can't see any neck on the last two, and I am very partial to the bulls that have a lot of crest to their neck, so I don't really know if I like them better or not. Anyway, that first bulls picture was more straight on with his head tilted down slightly, which would naturally accentuate any length in the face. It is possible I wouldn't like it if I saw him in person, but I can't say for sure from the picture. It definitely would not have been much of a drawback if he met all of my other criteria for bull selection.

 

[Spot & Bubby]

If only Warren was here to guide us.............

Who is this mystical " Warren" I keep seeing mentioned?

 

[Spot & Bubby]

Our Mushrush stock has "the curls for the girls."

 

[Spot & Bubby]

Who is this mystical " Warren" I keep seeing mentioned?

Nm... I think I got it.

 

[gcreekrch]

Do these pass the beauty contest?