Do you make or buy your hay?

[Lucky]

I have a barn but not enough for 2 years worth of storage. If im paying to build another building I would rather buy equipment and not worry about being short of hay again.

I'm with you on this and allot of people feel the same way. The problem is all the equipment in the world won't bale enough hay to survive a serious drought year. We had people with good hay equipment waiting in line for 4-5 hours at the salebarn last year. Can't plan for everything so we try our best to mitigate the risk. Remember we're always 30 days away from a drought.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

A drought here in the UP is different than a drought other places.

Last year was our worst drought in recorded history and we still made 60% of normal hay crop. Even in a drought we get nightly dew which helps carry us along.

 

[chaded]

I'm with you on this and allot of people feel the same way. The problem is all the equipment in the world won't bale enough hay to survive a serious drought year. We had people with good hay equipment waiting in line for 4-5 hours at the salebarn last year. Can't plan for everything so we try our best to mitigate the risk. Remember we're always 30 days away from a drought.

With my situation, if i made my own hay I would have more than I need even in a drought. Normal years I would have to sell quite a bit of hay. Half my grass is in a hayfield and the other half is pasture. I stock only for what I can graze on the pastures for at least 6-8 months and plan on feeding hay the other months.

We experienced d3/4 drought this summer and while i am shorter on hay this year, I think I will get by and I am only getting 1/3 of my hayfield because I do it on shares.

We usually get 40+ inches of rain annually though and a drought here is not normal and is different than what some experience. Mainly, ours does not last long and is not common.

I would love to fence the hayfield and graze it and pastures and buy hay but two problems I run into with that is finding hay and my hayfield is bottom land and is pretty wet at certain times of the year which limits grazing some unless I want my field tore up. If I could find the hay I would likely graze the hayfield when I can and graze the pastures when I can't.

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Geez, I hate to be the turd in the punchbowl guy and end this thread, cause it's a good one, but I think the answer is "it depends" That's the answer to so many things in life.....

Where you're located, how many fields you have use of, how much help you have, how many cows you have, how able bodied you are, how committed are you? The list goes on forever.

I have 30 head of beefers with a max size of 45 is all I will grow to. I make all my own hay (400 rounds) and sell 120ish. I hay about 100 acres split between about 12 fields (that seems to be growing every year cause no one in my area seems to want to hay. (maybe they are smarter than me, ha) Also I am in an area where there might only be 4 or 5 cattle operations in the town.

I would guess I have around 150k worth of equipment (all paid for), but my thought is if you buy quality equipment and take care of it, when you sell, you will get a lot of that money back.

Heck, I paid 4300 for a 1980 40 series Deere with 4500 hours on it 25 years ago. 2wd/loader. That tractor has 9000 hours on it. I bet I could get as much, as I paid for it if I sold now...

Farmers are the richest folks in the world, we just don't realize it until we sell...

 

[Brute 23]

A drought here in the UP is different than a drought other places.

Last year was our worst drought in recorded history and we still made 60% of normal hay crop. Even in a drought we get nightly dew which helps carry us along.

That is very true. This year we were still in a drought from last year. Some of us got some good rain in one month and made hay. Some people did not. When it goes dry, you do not make any hay, neither does your neighbor, or likely any one in the area. If you are hay dependent, you will be paying up on $75-100 per bale trucked in and it is likely trash. Good coastal or Tifton or any thing like that will be around $100.

The people that acted like they were offended because I wouldn't sell them the junk hay went and bought milo stubble or some thing like that for like $80 a bale. You will starve your cows and your bank account doing stuff like that.

 

[Lucky_P]

If you were in Western KY in 2007 with cattle, so was I. That is the dryest and worst drought I can remember (at least when I have fooled with cattle). My grandad was lucky to have a good buddy with a lot of acreage and a surplus hay crop. We had to make the same round trip hauling hay every weekend from Earlington to Kelly to feed cattle all winter.

That is one reason I elect to make hay, I would rather have surplus from myself vs having to dry all over the country trying to find it in a drought year. We really only got one cutting this year in East TN, but luckily I don't need a lot as I'm just starting my herd.

@clarkmorefarm. I'm in the Sinking Fork community, not far from Kelly. 2007 was a gamechanger. Disastrous freeze at Easter, then a 1" rain event between May 1 and Nov 30. It put a lot of small, and older producers out of the cattle business. Most of those over 50 never came back... and when they started getting $250/acre cash rent from crop farmers and the fences and woodlots came down, I knew the cows weren't coming back. Small-time grazers couldn't afford the pasture rents.
I paid more ($90/roll) than I swore I wouldn't, for some hay out of OK. We limit-fed 5-10# hay/cow/day and something like 15-20 # of modified distiller's grain/cow/day (whatever the ration calculator said they needed to meet nutritional needs. We were lucky that my wife found a guy who just happened to have some surplus hay that year, but it was an unusual occurrence for him.

 

[ClinchValley86]

If you were in Western KY in 2007 with cattle, so was I. That is the dryest and worst drought I can remember (at least when I have fooled with cattle). My grandad was lucky to have a good buddy with a lot of acreage and a surplus hay crop. We had to make the same round trip hauling hay every weekend from Earlington to Kelly to feed cattle all winter.

That is one reason I elect to make hay, I would rather have surplus from myself vs having to dry all over the country trying to find it in a drought year. We really only got one cutting this year in East TN, but luckily I don't need a lot as I'm just starting my herd.

I'm in Hawkins/Hancock/Hamblen/Greene Counties. Howdie neoghbor!

 

[clarkmorefarm]

Geez, I hate to be the turd in the punchbowl guy and end this thread, cause it's a good one, but I think the answer is "it depends" That's the answer to so many things in life.....

Where you're located, how many fields you have use of, how much help you have, how many cows you have, how able bodied you are, how committed are you? The list goes on forever.

I have 30 head of beefers with a max size of 45 is all I will grow to. I make all my own hay (400 rounds) and sell 120ish. I hay about 100 acres split between about 12 fields (that seems to be growing every year cause no one in my area seems to want to hay. (maybe they are smarter than me, ha) Also I am in an area where there might only be 4 or 5 cattle operations in the town.

I would guess I have around 150k worth of equipment (all paid for), but my thought is if you buy quality equipment and take care of it, when you sell, you will get a lot of that money back.

Heck, I paid 4300 for a 1980 40 series Deere with 4500 hours on it 25 years ago. 2wd/loader. That tractor has 9000 hours on it. I bet I could get as much, as I paid for it if I sold now...

Farmers are the richest folks in the world, we just don't realize it until we sell...

That Tractor is probably worth $25K now, it is insane what Old Iron is going for these days.

 

[clarkmorefarm]

@clarkmorefarm. I'm in the Sinking Fork community, not far from Kelly. 2007 was a gamechanger. Disastrous freeze at Easter, then a 1" rain event between May 1 and Nov 30. It put a lot of small, and older producers out of the cattle business. Most of those over 50 never came back... and when they started getting $250/acre cash rent from crop farmers and the fences and woodlots came down, I knew the cows weren't coming back. Small-time grazers couldn't afford the pasture rents.
I paid more ($90/roll) than I swore I wouldn't, for some hay out of OK. We limit-fed 5-10# hay/cow/day and something like 15-20 # of modified distiller's grain/cow/day (whatever the ration calculator said they needed to meet nutritional needs. We were lucky that my wife found a guy who just happened to have some surplus hay that year, but it was an unusual occurrence for him.

I forgot about the freeze, I vividly remember mowing grass in April on spring break, and it started snowing on me.

I was born in Hoptown, lived in Crofton until I was 8. I come from a line of coal miners on one side and school teachers on the other.

My granddad and great uncle used to own the Christian County Livestock Market, spent a lot of time running cattle there in my youth until they sold it 2008. I remember watching the head count go down every week. Row crops wiped out most the cattle in the area.

Don't get back to Christian County a lot these days, but still have my maternal grandfather there and my great uncle from the stockyard lives in Hopkins county.

 

[Dave]

I am sure there is over 10,000 acres of irrigated hay (mostly alfalfa) within 100 miles of my place. If you went out to 200 miles the amount raised gets huge. Trucks loaded with hay going up and down the freeway all the time. The hay is in either small or big square bales. The standard is a truck pulling a set of 32 foot trailers or a 40 and a 24. Either way that is 48 big squares to a load. At 1,200 lbs per bale that is just short of 29 tons to the load..

 

[Cowman42]

There is no way I could make hay for double the cost of what I buy it for. I have a big farmer down the road that owns or leases about about 1/4 of the county. He rotates alfalfa, corn, beans and hay....the hay is just an alfalfa stand that has all died out. He will cut hay of it for a couple years and then go back to beans, corn then alfalfa....Since the hay is not his primary income he sells it very cheap. I got 4x5 grass with some alfalfa in it for $40 delivered via semi this year......the bales weighed over 800lbs and are top quality feed. I have a close buddy growing hay for horse folks that sells me his rounds when he gets stuck making them instead of squares....Due to weather or labor issues. He sells it to me for what it costs him to make it......$50 this year. He uses 30-40 year old equipment that he paid off decades ago on land he has owned for 50 years....... Most of the folks I know that actually pencil their hay costs are higher. So I buy it.

 

[Cowman42]

We make our own, but have some custom baled to save time. Have thought about buying hay and converting hay land to pasture. As Greg Judy says, every time you start a tractor something's going to break or blow up. Spending many thousands on my old 4240 (tranny and engine overhaul this summer). That would buy a lot of hay.

I have never heard him say that........But damned if that isn't the truest thing I have ever heard!

 

[Cowman42]

I

This is no joke. Friend of mine spent $90k on hay equipment this year. Not sure what he was thinking when he bought all that stuff. The other day he told me " I've got a good job I can afford the equipment ". I told him the equipment is supposed to pay for itself and he gave me the craziest look. Last time I bring that up. Unfortunately this is the downfall of allot of folks with cows.

I definitely think hay equipment will pay for itself but, it's up to the individuals to make it work.

If you were in my neighborhood I would think that we know the same guy.....I have had nearly the same conversation with a guy that dropped over 200k on a brand new Deere tractor and hay equipment for his 50 acre hay field........Last I heard he was selling out after 2 years.......I guess that good job couldn't cover all that debt after all.

 

[Lucky]

We've got guys in our area that run a couple thousand head and own zero hay equipment and only a couple tractors. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

The one thing I rarely see ranchers do is figure real world equipment cost. It's pretty rare you hear a guy say it cost me X amount per hour to run that tractor. When it's all said and done though a 2020 model tractor with 4,000 hrs pulling a baler is worth less the a 2020 tractor with 400 hours poking around the ranch. How much less is the the kicker. Maybe it's worth it maybe it's not?

 

[Cowman42]

If you were in Western KY in 2007 with cattle, so was I. That is the dryest and worst drought I can remember (at least when I have fooled with cattle). My grandad was lucky to have a good buddy with a lot of acreage and a surplus hay crop. We had to make the same round trip hauling hay every weekend from Earlington to Kelly to feed cattle all winter.

That is one reason I elect to make hay, I would rather have surplus from myself vs having to dry all over the country trying to find it in a drought year. We really only got one cutting this year in East TN, but luckily I don't need a lot as I'm just starting my herd.

This is one of the reasons I buy hay.......My neighbor couldn't get his hay up this year due to rain......In late June and July when we bale first cut it never went longer than 2 days without rain. Then when fall rolled around it never did rain. So my neighbor got maybe a 1/4 of his normal hay put up and had to buy hay.....One of the guys I buy hay from is about 75 miles north and had a bumper hay crop this year.....This seems to happen every year for the last 5-8 years.......The folks near me will have a terrible year for hay and the guys up north will have great years and vice versa.....If I made my own hay, like my neighbor I would be buying in hay this year anyway just like he did......That said when corn prices get high everyone plows up their hay fields and then cattlemen go out. ****ing ethanol.

 

[Cowman42]

Geez, I hate to be the turd in the punchbowl guy and end this thread, cause it's a good one, but I think the answer is "it depends" That's the answer to so many things in life.....

Where you're located, how many fields you have use of, how much help you have, how many cows you have, how able bodied you are, how committed are you? The list goes on forever.

I have 30 head of beefers with a max size of 45 is all I will grow to. I make all my own hay (400 rounds) and sell 120ish. I hay about 100 acres split between about 12 fields (that seems to be growing every year cause no one in my area seems to want to hay. (maybe they are smarter than me, ha) Also I am in an area where there might only be 4 or 5 cattle operations in the town.

I would guess I have around 150k worth of equipment (all paid for), but my thought is if you buy quality equipment and take care of it, when you sell, you will get a lot of that money back.

Heck, I paid 4300 for a 1980 40 series Deere with 4500 hours on it 25 years ago. 2wd/loader. That tractor has 9000 hours on it. I bet I could get as much, as I paid for it if I sold now...

Farmers are the richest folks in the world, we just don't realize it until we sell...

Except that that 4300 bought a hell of a lot more 25 years ago than it does now. Farmers always complain about the inflation but then forget all about it on the other side of the equation. Where you spend/invest your money matters.....That 4300 invested in the S&P in 1999 would be worth 30k today.......While inflation has eaten about half the dollar's value.

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Except that that 4300 bought a hell of a lot more 25 years ago than it does now. Farmers always complain about the inflation but then forget all about it on the other side of the equation. Where you spend/invest your money matters.....That 4300 invested in the S&P in 1999 would be worth 30k today.......While inflation has eaten about half the dollar's value.

200 rounds/year at 60 bucks per = 12000 times 25 years = $300K.

 

[Ridgefarmer63]

Except that that 4300 bought a hell of a lot more 25 years ago than it does now. Farmers always complain about the inflation but then forget all about it on the other side of the equation. Where you spend/invest your money matters.....That 4300 invested in the S&P in 1999 would be worth 30k today.......While inflation has eaten about half the dollar's value.

And besides you wouldn't have been able to invest it cause you would of had to spend it buying hay !!

 

[mwj]

''Magic'' hay and ''magic'' heifers do not grow in all parts of the country.

 

[Cowman42]

200 rounds/year at 60 bucks per = 12000 times 25 years = $300K.

You make $60 profit per roll of hay? I need to quit messing around with cattle then and move to NH to raise magic hay.