Disposition of Ten-X sons?

[Nesikep]

Did you ever suspect the problems from the dam side? I've noticed that disposition can skip generations and the dam can reintroduce the foolishness as well as the bull.

I was surprised that wasn't brought up on page 1.. My thoughts exactly.. Was he an ET calf? what was the biological dam? how was the mother? a stunned c&nt of a cow can teach their calves all sorts of bad habits... I have a whole family of cows that are going to grow wheels since they ALWAYS work my fences no matter how good the grass is.

We didn't always have the luxury of having good cows with good temperaments to keep replacements from, but now every one of them, bulls included better be cool headed..
I know my bulls (and cows) are more friendly and social than many people here like, they aren't scared of me, they don't see me as a threat, but they still know I can get mad.. It's impressive to have 2500 lb bulls come up for a scratch, but I wouldn't keep him around if I had an inkling there was any aggression there.. NO SNORTING, NO PAWING!!. Same bulls will beat each other or any other bull up, I don't care.

 

[Dixie2542]

After that, I'd call the processor and have him meet me at the farm, then go out and have the pleasure of putting one between his eyes.
I second that or ship him asap. - Almost lost my father to a mean bull. No animal that's willing to take you out is worth the trouble...Safety first.

 

[elkwc]

Guess I missed this thread. I don't tolerate cattle with a bad attitude. I don't want a gentle bull myself. I've known too many hurt and killed by gentle bulls. Not because they charged but when something that weighs over a ton accidently contacts you whether it is because he slipped ect they will hurt you bad. I try to teach a bull to stand at least a few feet from me when they are young. We do have a few cows we can scratch. I also agree that the cow contributes and should be considered as a potential part of the problem. I've seen several 10X sons at sales and can't remember seeing any with temperment issues. Have seen some from other sires that have. Know of one that hit the plywood that the ring man stood behind and knocked it into his chest two years ago. I just don't tolerate one with issues. That is one reason why the Balancer bull we had is gone. His calves tended to be flighty. I do give a little leeway if one is hurt. And not a lot then. In this case I would agree it is time for him to find a new home.

 

[frieghttrain]

I found it interesting that Select sires/ accelerated genetics cut him from their lineup.

 

[elkwc]

I found it interesting that Select sires/ accelerated genetics cut him from their lineup.

I know several breeders who have told me they had structural and feet issues with 10X calves and several who quit using him and a few who culled his daughters for structural and feet issues. But this is the first I've heard about disposition issues. The structural and feet issues is why I've shied away but have considered some grand and great grands.

 

[frieghttrain]

I found it interesting that Select sires/ accelerated genetics cut him from their lineup.

I know several breeders who have told me they had structural and feet issues with 10X calves and several who quit using him and a few who culled his daughters for structural and feet issues. But this is the first I've heard about disposition issues. The structural and feet issues is why I've shied away but have considered some grand and great grands.

I've heard other people say the same on here. Just didn't think they'd cut him as he's been popular.

 

[UG]

Several good comments so far. Following are a few of my thoughts
1. No bull is worth keeping if he is becoming aggressive. Too many people are killed every year by bulls that they knew were a risk.
2. I know several registered Angus breeders who have commented that a larger percentage of their Ten X sons were flighty or aggressive. I helped one of my friends work some bulls when they were scanning them for IMF, REA, and Fat. Out of over 100 bulls, the only yearling bulls that acted aggressive to me were both Ten X sons.
3. Ten X has a reputation for siring some calves with poor feet.
4. I would be very surprised if Select Sires/Accelerated Genetics would pull Ten X from their line-up, considering the amount of semen they sell out of the bull every year.

 

[frieghttrain]

.
4. I would be very surprised if Select Sires/Accelerated Genetics would pull Ten X from their line-up, considering the amount of semen they sell out of the bull every year.

I agree It doesn't make sense why they cut him but he's not in the directory of either 2018 beef line up not even mentioned in the other sires available list. Think he'll come back? I'd be suprised, as if he was just back ordered why not list that or have him on the other sires available list?

 

[Bestoutwest]

How much of it is handling? I know you're not supposed to pat bulls on the head, told my wife multiple times, but she still did it when I was out with my foot surgery. Came back and had to work with our 16 m/o bull who almost mowed me down. It was an exercise in sphincter control, that's for sure. She had super big eyes and promised never to pat them on the head again. I think the thought of another winter feeding the cows and keeping the house going WHILE working scared the heck out of her. I'm not sure that was all of it when it happened, but I'm sure it couldn't have helped.

FYI, ours was a Rampage son out of a LH cow who's very docile and polite.

 

[tom4018]

So far he has not acted that way again. I know that can change, considering shipping home anyway due to his lower weaning weights. Really didn't want to have to buy a bull now as Thai will just be his second calf crop. Wife says buying a bull would be cheaper than medical bills.

He has not been treated as a pet. Although I like cows and bulls that you can walk around say within 10 feet without causing them to run. Last couple I have had were the type you could get 5 feet from and they would step back.

I may be pressing my luck keeping him but need to see what I can find as the sale are starting up.

 

[Bestoutwest]

Wife says buying a bull would be cheaper than medical bills.

My foot surgeries turned into $209,000. Think of the bull you could buy for $208,000, and it would still be cheaper. Your wife is a smart lady. Not only do medical bills suck to pay back, but the recovery process is awful. If you've ever had to do it, try to remember how bad it is and then ask yourself "Do I really want to do that again?"

 

[UG]

One last thought. In my experience, I have never seen a bull that started acting a bit aggressive ever go back to being a quiet bull. One of my neighbors had an Angus that started acting aggressive and he was seriously thinking of keeping him, hoping that he would quiet down soon. The bull continued to be snotty, and thankfully my neighbor had enough sense to sell him rather than try to get one more calf crop out of him.

 

[Lazy M]

One last thought. In my experience, I have never seen a bull that started acting a bit aggressive ever go back to being a quiet bull. One of my neighbors had an Angus that started acting aggressive and he was seriously thinking of keeping him, hoping that he would quiet down soon. The bull continued to be snotty, and thankfully my neighbor had enough sense to sell him rather than try to get one more calf crop out of him.

I'll disagree to a point. I have seen 2 bulls that I can think of that went from skittish and slightly aggressive as long yearlings to pretty tame after another year or so. Could be that it took them a little time to adjust to a new place

 

[elkwc]

One last thought. In my experience, I have never seen a bull that started acting a bit aggressive ever go back to being a quiet bull. One of my neighbors had an Angus that started acting aggressive and he was seriously thinking of keeping him, hoping that he would quiet down soon. The bull continued to be snotty, and thankfully my neighbor had enough sense to sell him rather than try to get one more calf crop out of him.

I'll disagree to a point. I have seen 2 bulls that I can think of that went from skittish and slightly aggressive as long yearlings to pretty tame after another year or so. Could be that it took them a little time to adjust to a new place

I have also seen a few that as 2 y/o's raised in a large group were a little snorty become gentle over time. The bull we recently sold was that way. Also have seen those who were hurting from injury or sickness become a little agressive and when they got well they were fine again. I always analyze the situation but if there is no apparent cause for their actions and they aren't a young bull that hasn't had a lot of human contact then they are gone. Many of the larger breeders around here raise there young bulls in large pastures up to a few sections so these bulls don't have the human contact that those raised in a smaller group or a pen.

 

[Ebenezer]

Worse bull to deal with is an older bull that used to be the dominate bull but has been whipped by a younger bull. They are unpredictable, sulking, loners, refuse to move as normal, gate shy, will begin fence jumping, ... Don't know if this has anything to do with this bull but general free advise if you ever get into that situation.

 

[farmguy]

Our neighbor had a cow, mostly Simmental, that always raised a nice calf but aggressive when first calved. His son who was in his 20s but mentally limited took care of the cattle. They were both out with the cattle when this cow had just calved. The cow left her calf, walked over and crushed the son against a plank fence and then went back to licking the calf. Our neighbor saw it all. Son died and father to this day is devastated. "I could have sold her but". The son was with the cows everyday and had a name or each, 50 plus cows. For what its worth, farmguy.

 

[TCRanch]

Our neighbor had a cow, mostly Simmental, that always raised a nice calf but aggressive when first calved. His son who was in his 20s but mentally limited took care of the cattle. They were both out with the cattle when this cow had just calved. The cow left her calf, walked over and crushed the son against a plank fence and then went back to licking the calf. Our neighbor saw it all. Son died and father to this day is devastated. "I could have sold her but". The son was with the cows everyday and had a name or each, 50 plus cows. For what its worth, farmguy.

Wow. :frowns: